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  1. #11
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I don't think of it as combined with action, Peguy.

    Never heard "Hope without works is dead."
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  2. #12
    Sniffles
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    I'm not getting your point here.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I'm a little tired tonight. Just came back from a friend's birthday party. I'll plan on saying more tomorrow.

    In the meantime, your question sent me to the dictionary. I see that at one time the idea of trust was involved in the definition of hope but that is now considered archaic.

    The word faith has that additional aspect. A belief in what we can't prove. The kind of faith that I hope everyone has each day when we awake, religious and nonreligious alike.

    The faith that I have learned enough about myself, wants, needs and abilities to have a day which will fulfill me.

    Does that help?

    I'll say more tomorrow unless I get an inspiration. Ojala'.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  4. #14
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Oh lookit! I used the aitch word. Funny.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  5. #15
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    faith that I will be able to walk through it.
    uh, faith is nothing more than hope with a larger degree of certainty-you can't have faith without hope. Anyway, hope is not limited to wishing someone else will come along and save you; as Didums said, that would be self-destructive, unwarranted optimism, which is but one (inferior) incarnation of hope.

  6. #16
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Overcoming despair, seeing that you can make it through, and acquiring the skill set that makes it all possible is what gives you future hope that is grounded in reality, so I don't know why you would want to experience hope without ever tasting despair.

    Edit: On second thought, isn't the very essence of hope that it is not grounded in reality?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    I don't think of it as combined with action, Peguy.

    Never heard "Hope without works is dead."
    Hope can be the catalyst for a variety of actions. In some cases, it's the fuel and drive left for someone to continue on. Hope is quite powerful

  8. #18
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I appreciate the posts since I last was here. While essentially it's a matter of semantics we're talking about when we talk about the difference between faith and hope, I think it's important to recognize that gaining true confidence is a process. And others here have commented on that.

    Without the process of trial and error confidence is an empty and unrealistic stance.

    From my viewpoint hope is a wish. Faith is a commitment.

    Perhaps we start with hope. Maybe someday I'll be able to walk like mom and dad do. Like that. Increased successes as we pursue our hope may be the way that we develop faith in ourselves or something greater than ourselves. Maybe hope is the first step of the process.

    As far as despair goes I can imagine few individuals who have normal coping skills have never experienced the feeling. It goes with the package of life, of trial and error. I don't think a rejection of despair is realistic. I imagine despair is the catalyst of hope.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  9. #19
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Call me cynical, but I think that both of them are products of how brains of one particular species on Earth function.

    Personally I think this is not cynical

  10. #20
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    NO
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

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