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  1. #11
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    The video points out how religious missionaries uncritically accept the dictates of an authority.

    The question is whether or not it is a mistake to uncritically accept the dictates of an authority. The video suggests that it is because the two persons who have represented the missionaries were being ridiculed.

    Did you say anything that is relevant to the question above?
    I didn't see anything reglious about it. It looked to me like an ENTJ called hank was asserting his authority over someone who apparently has a problem with authority. This is why I thought he's was an ENTJ:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...females-4.html

    It could well be that I had a sensotard moment and completely missed the reglious subtext.

  2. #12
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    I didn't see anything reglious about it. It looked to me like an ENTJ called hank was asserting his authority over someone who apparently has a problem with authority. This is why I thought he's was an ENTJ:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...females-4.html

    It could well be that I had a sensotard moment and completely missed the reglious subtext.
    Note the following points.

    The two persons in black have made the following remarks.

    1)Hank gives money to you if you do his bidding, but he will do so only after you have left town. Basically, worship God, but you will be rewarded only after you're gone.

    2)My mother kissed Hank's ass and was rewarded when she left town. I have not spoken to my mother ever since. Why would that be? Could it be because she left the town? Unpersuasive, as that way it would be easy to maintain contact with her. She died and that is why the character was unable to maintain contact with her.

    3)Hank is always right because he says he is. The implication of this is that he is the ultimate authority with regard to anything. God is the only entity upon which such great esteem is frequently conferred.

    4)As an entailment of point three, one of the persons in black said that the scientists make mistakes, but Hanks is always right. This is an allusion to the famous theological doctrine concerning the primacy of revelation over reason.

    5) One of the persons in black has stated that the moon is made of blue cheese. He justifies this with the doctrine established in point four. Religions are often concerned with cosmological questions and this is such a question.

    6)Kick the shit out of those who are different from you was also a remark made by one of the persons in black. Hostility towards those who hold beliefs incompatible with one's own religious beliefs is also a common attitude among the religious.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  3. #13
    Senior Member Hexis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I feel like kicking someones ass
    HAWT. lol
    SDMF

  4. #14
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    The religious reference was heavy in my opinion. Am I really being delusional here?

    The men in black are proseltyzers.

    Hank is God.

    The list is either the Bible or the Ten Commandments.

    Leaving town is dying.

    The money is heaven.

    Getting your ass kicked could both represent being punished while alive as well as going to hell. It is damnation at the will of God (in this case, Hank).

    The reference to finding money on the street is about how people try to tie together random, insignificant events as proof of God.

    They talk about how Hank use to talk to people, because of the mystery concerning the fact that God doesn't seem to talk to anyone these days, but apparently did constantly in the Bible.

    Karl, is a clergymen and surrogate to God, like the Pope.

    The circular logic is a reference to logic surrounding God's supposed omniscience and the origins of the Bible, that is often used to validate the bible and religious theories.

    Eating a weener without a bun or condiments is a reference to sexual practices.

    Some that eats weeners without a bun is a homosexual, the condiments are various other sexual "deviations".

    ...

    Was I really reading too much into this? That seemed like it was the whole joke to me, though. I can't imagine how anyone would have thought this was supposed to be funny without the religious reference.
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  5. #15
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    If everything the missionaries say is true, then that person should get the shit kicked out of them. Even if he is Hank himself, he has not actually done anything to take himself out of the qualifications of getting his ass kicked, according to what the missionaries said.

    Now, I suppose what you might say, is that everything the missionaries said is true, then everything Hank said will standing in the door is true. That would result in contradictions, though. That would mean the moon is and isn't made of cheese, for example. Perhaps I missed something, but I don't believe Hank actually told the missionaries they were wrong about all the things that would qualify Hank for an ass kicking. If that's true, then yes, Hank should get his ass kicked according to what the missionaries said, because he qualifies for an ass kicking in several ways, and he did not use his own irrefutable power to say that he should not get his ass kicked.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Was I really reading too much into this?
    Nope, you and bluewing pretty much got all of the points covered give or take a couple.

    That seemed like it was the whole joke to me, though. I can't imagine how anyone would have thought this was supposed to be funny without the religious reference.
    I thought this was more like a PSA (edit: Public Service Announcement) to dogmatic believers, where the creators of the video were trying to provoke thought that would cause them to question their own beliefs.

  7. #17
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I don't think Hank has that justification for kicking the sh*t out of "Hank." "Hank" questioned, and stated his preference for kraut and weiners. He never actually refused to kiss Hank's ass (however if he never kisses Hank's ass, then it is time for kicking the sh*t out of "Hank.") As for being different than Hank, I think "Hank" is actually more like Hank than he would care to admit. He thinks he is right.
    Good point(s).

    On the one hand you wrote that Hank didnt have justification to kick hanks assyeton the other hand, you wrote that if hank never kissed Hanks ass, then its time for Hank to kick hanks ass.

    What gives Hank the justification he needs to kick hanks ass if hank never kisses His ass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    It seems that people in video lack a mental process for evaluating the correctness of information they're given once someone they consider an authority has stated it to be true.
    Or they have a mental process they could use to evaluate the correctness of information, but they dont want to use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    I submit to people's authority if I respect them. They have to first earn that respect. Something I thought about recently. Would I ever go to work for Republican's even if it were an amazing opportunity to do something I love to do? No. I would get fired within two weeks. I have little respect for many of them, therefore I will not submit to their authority. Some of them I do have respect for. John McCain redeemed himself later in his campaign. He earned my respect.

    Sometimes even if someone has earned my respect I will push the boundaries of that relationship, for what reason I'm not sure. I am a risk taker. I generally tend to push the boundaries on everything. It usually takes them to assert their authority before I will take a step back and respect the boundaries. If I have respect for the person, I will do that.
    Im the same way. But, as Blue-Solitary-Wing-Walker mentioned, authority can be accepted uncritically, and that is the main point of this film.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    If everything the missionaries say is true, then that person should get the shit kicked out of them. Even if he is Hank himself, he has not actually done anything to take himself out of the qualifications of getting his ass kicked, according to what the missionaries said.

    Now, I suppose what you might say, is that everything the missionaries said is true, then everything Hank said will standing in the door is true. That would result in contradictions, though. That would mean the moon is and isn't made of cheese, for example. Perhaps I missed something, but I don't believe Hank actually told the missionaries they were wrong about all the things that would qualify Hank for an ass kicking. If that's true, then yes, Hank should get his ass kicked according to what the missionaries said, because he qualifies for an ass kicking in several ways, and he did not use his own irrefutable power to say that he should not get his ass kicked.
    True, hes not done anything do disqualify an ass kicking, but should Hank kick his ass? Were it all true, he would get his ass kicked unless he repents; but would Hank have any justification for causing hank to suffer? Is hank's ignorance of Hank, his promises, and his laws, culpable such that he deserves to have his ass kicked if he doesn't "repent"?

    If hank is Hank, and everything the proselytizers say is true, then Hank both should and shouldnt get his ass kicked, because everything follows a contradiction. Hank could be lying, but this poses problems too and neednt be examined here in detail.

    Id forgotten that hank could be Hank. I prefer this interpretation, but only if some of what the proselytizers say is false, and I think this is the best interpretation: Hank/God tests the proselytizers' understanding by asking them questions, revealing whether or not they are concerned with understanding. When they fail the test and become disgusted with Hank and His desire for understanding, He lets them go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    Nope, you and bluewing pretty much got all of the points covered give or take a couple.

    I thought this was more like a PSA to dogmatic believers, where the creators of the video were trying to provoke thought that would cause them to question their own beliefs.
    Im dont what the PSA is, but I think youre right about the creators intent. At the end, it says the story was created by someone with the title Rev. which usually stands for Reverend. I believe this film was created by Christians who are pushing their fellow believers to go farther in understanding. Although it may very well have been created by non-Christians. Either way, they did a good job.

  8. #18
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    BlueWing got it. Second time he's done that, in my estimation.

  9. #19

    Default a little logic game...

    Well, I think the religious comparisons were obvious...but there is also a little logic game embeded in the video (intentional or not).

    There are a lot of assumptions implied. But I will use the following.

    1) The Hank, the "missionaries" are refering to is the owner of the laptop shown near the end of the video.
    2) The person who owns that laptop is the one the missonaries were attempting to "convert."

    So that person is The Hank. This Hank, made very few statements through out the video--most of what we said were questions.

    Here is the list of statements that I was able to extract from the video:

    That doesn't make any sense.

    Maybe... if it's legit.

    I'm sorry but, this sound's like some bizarre con-game.

    Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to him get the details straight from him...

    This appears to written on Karl's letterhead.

    I have a hunch if we check this is Karl's handwriting.

    I thought you said no one gets to see Hank.

    I thought you said he was a philanthropist.

    Maybe your friend Karl made the whole things up.

    But 9 says "don't use alcohol," which doesn't quite go with item 2.

    and 6 says "the moon is made of green cheese" which is just plain wrong.
    Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock.


    I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the moon was somehow captured by the Earth has been discounted.

    Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't mean its made of chese.

    Your saying:"Hank's always right because the list says so. So the list is right because Hank dictated it...and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so." That's circular logic...no different from "Hank's right because he says he's right."

    It's good I eat it all the time.


    If we were to allow the missionaries that "9 just clarifies 2." It is still a logical impossibility that the list is entirely correct.


    Item 1: Kiss Hank's Ass and he will give you a million dollar when you leave town.
    Item 2: Use Alcohol in moderation.
    Item 3: Kick the shit out people who are not like you.
    Item 4: Eat right.
    Item 5: Hank dictated this list himself.
    Item 6: The moon is made of green cheese.
    Item 7: Everything hank says is right.
    Item 8: Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
    Item 9: Don't use alcohol.
    Item 10: Eat your weener in buns. No condaments.
    Item 11: Kiss Hank's ass, or he'll kick the shit out of you.


    Either what Hank said about item 6 or item 6 is wrong. So either Item 5 or Item 7 is wrong.

    Anyway, just thought it was also an embeded logic puzzle. If only, people would believe that the sicence we get is also something God tells us.

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  10. #20
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    The religious reference was heavy in my opinion. Am I really being delusional here?

    The men in black are proseltyzers.

    Hank is God.

    The list is either the Bible or the Ten Commandments.

    Leaving town is dying.

    The money is heaven.

    Getting your ass kicked could both represent being punished while alive as well as going to hell. It is damnation at the will of God (in this case, Hank).

    The reference to finding money on the street is about how people try to tie together random, insignificant events as proof of God.

    They talk about how Hank use to talk to people, because of the mystery concerning the fact that God doesn't seem to talk to anyone these days, but apparently did constantly in the Bible.

    Karl, is a clergymen and surrogate to God, like the Pope.

    The circular logic is a reference to logic surrounding God's supposed omniscience and the origins of the Bible, that is often used to validate the bible and religious theories.

    Eating a weener without a bun or condiments is a reference to sexual practices.

    Some that eats weeners without a bun is a homosexual, the condiments are various other sexual "deviations".

    ...

    Was I really reading too much into this? That seemed like it was the whole joke to me, though. I can't imagine how anyone would have thought this was supposed to be funny without the religious reference.
    You might be reading too much into it, but this is not a bad argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    If everything the missionaries say is true, then that person should get the shit kicked out of them. Even if he is Hank himself, he has not actually done anything to take himself out of the qualifications of getting his ass kicked, according to what the missionaries said.

    Now, I suppose what you might say, is that everything the missionaries said is true, then everything Hank said will standing in the door is true. That would result in contradictions, though. That would mean the moon is and isn't made of cheese, for example. Perhaps I missed something, but I don't believe Hank actually told the missionaries they were wrong about all the things that would qualify Hank for an ass kicking. If that's true, then yes, Hank should get his ass kicked according to what the missionaries said, because he qualifies for an ass kicking in several ways, and he did not use his own irrefutable power to say that he should not get his ass kicked.
    I think you are applying too much logic to this situation. People generally don't think in terms of propositional logic. This is possibly why we have trouble with authority. An ENTJ leader might say these are the rule obey them. An INTP might retort, "These rules don't make sense. I can't follow rules that are illogical or contradictory". The ENTJ might respond, "I don't care. That's not my problem. Those are the rules, obey them."

    INTP:steam:

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