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Thread: Jesus Loves Me!

  1. #21
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmicdancer View Post
    But clearly that was not what Moses, Jesus or Muhammad described all those hundreds of years ago.
    Where did Moses describe hell?

    When Jewish people died, they ALL descended into Sheol ("the grave"). Heaven/Hell were not ethereal distant and future concepts to them -- things very much played out in the "Now," it seems, and everyone regardless of belief went to "sleep" when they passed on. The Jews simply believed that somehow JHVH would still prove himself faithful and restore life somehow. But I am not sure they knew exactly what that entailed.

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmicdancer View Post
    I hate religion - all religions. I spent a great deal of my life in a religion and I want NOTHING more to do with any of them.

    But for a moment I felt like going with him to whatever meeting. Just so that there might be some people who would be interested in me, give me some attention, affection, and even love.

    Don't laugh - I know it's so stupid.

    Of course that's what attracts many people to religion - lost lonely and unhappy souls, looking for attention, to be part of a group and of course - the love of Jesus.
    Just because you're lonely and he might have been exploitative (maybe) doesn't mean it's not true.

    You'll have to go and see and play it by ear.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #22
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    So Jews don't follow the old testament do they?
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmicdancer View Post
    lol.

    The very idea of Hell is just mind boggling.

    It is one of the reasons I rejected Islam.

    Of course modern Christians, Jews and even some modern Muslims, will say that Hell is just a metaphore - an allegory for the suffering one faces as a result of the 'realization' that one has hurt others.

    But clearly that was not what Moses, Jesus or Muhammad described all those hundreds of years ago.

    That's the updated PC version.
    Well there's one thing that PC-ness is right about.

    On another note, if Jesus and God love everybody, wouldn't that make him a little bisexual? I think God puts these anti-gay rules on humans because he's really a homophobe hiding in the closet.

  4. #24
    Member cosmicdancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Where did Moses describe hell?
    I was refering to the Jewish tradition.

    Are you saying there is no Hell in Judaism?

    I thought the Muslim word Jahannum (Hell) came from the Hebrew word for hell?

  5. #25
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmicdancer View Post
    I was refering to the Jewish tradition.

    Are you saying there is no Hell in Judaism?

    I thought the Muslim word Jahannum (Hell) came from the Hebrew word for hell?
    I read that the jahannum word was an description of a real place on earth

    anyway, this site might help, I looked it up earlier:

    Does Judaism believe in Heaven and Hell? | AskMoses.com - Judaism, Ask a Rabbi - Live
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  6. #26
    Member cosmicdancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahara View Post
    I read that the jahannum word was an description of a real place on earth

    anyway, this site might help, I looked it up earlier:

    Does Judaism believe in Heaven and Hell? | AskMoses.com - Judaism, Ask a Rabbi - Live
    Thanks - I also looked up the word Jahannum and found this:

    Gehenna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It seems the word Gehenna is: "derived from the burning garbage dump near Jerusalem"

    LOL... it seems that Christian and Islamic myths of a burning fire where unbelievers are tossed for all eternity derives from a garbage dump!!!

  7. #27
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmicdancer View Post
    LOL... it seems that Christian and Islamic myths of a burning fire where unbelievers are tossed for all eternity derives from a garbage dump!!!
    Yes that's the one I meant, I remember first reading about it about a year ago and having a giggle at how detailed and different the idea of hell has become, rather than the bunch of "Garbage" it actually was.
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  8. #28
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Where did Moses describe hell?

    When Jewish people died, they ALL descended into Sheol ("the grave"). Heaven/Hell were not ethereal distant and future concepts to them -- things very much played out in the "Now," it seems, and everyone regardless of belief went to "sleep" when they passed on. The Jews simply believed that somehow JHVH would still prove himself faithful and restore life somehow. But I am not sure they knew exactly what that entailed.
    From what i understand many of the original Hebrew words are interpreted to imply the more modern idea of hell when translated into King James English. I understand that traditionally the Hebrews did not believe in anything like hell. They believed in the resurrection - or at least only the Sadducee did. (Or was that the Pharisees?) I'm trying to remember now if historically there were periods that they didn't even believe in an afterlife at all. Today is a different thing altogether - after Christian theology. There are even Christian churches today who draw more heavily from the Old Testament who do not believe in an eternal hell or a location designated for suffering. They do all believe in a Judgment Day, i think.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  9. #29
    Senior Member niffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmicdancer View Post
    Has he?

    But he doesn't know me.

    Besides he died 2000 years ago.
    This is possible because he has mad skills.
    sparkly sparkly rainbow excretions

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    holy shit am I a feeler?
    if you like my avatar, it's because i took it myself! : D

  10. #30
    Senior Member darlets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    This is possible because he has mad skills.
    Mad Skills but couldn't quite find the time to say slavery is bad.

    "
    Quotations by learned men from the 19th century:
    "[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America. 1,2

    "There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral." Rev. Alexander Campbell
    bullet "The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South Carolina

    "The hope of civilization itself hangs on the defeat of Negro suffrage." A statement by a prominent 19th-century southern Presbyterian pastor, cited by Rev. Jack Rogers, moderator of the Presbyterian Church (USA).
    bullet "The doom of Ham has been branded on the form and features of his African descendants. The hand of fate has united his color and destiny. Man cannot separate what God hath joined." United States Senator James Henry Hammond. 3

    Quotation from the 21st century:
    "If we apply sola scriptura to slavery, I'm afraid the abolitionists are on relatively weak ground. Nowhere is slavery in the Bible lambasted as an oppressive and evil institution: Vaughn Roste, United Church of Canada staff.

    Overview:

    The quotation by Jefferson Davis, listed above, reflected the beliefs of many Americans in the 19th century. Slavery was seen as having been "sanctioned in the Bible." They argued that:
    Biblical passages recognized, controlled, and regulated the practice.
    The Bible permitted owners to beat their slaves severely, even to the point of killing them. However, as long as the slave lingered longer than 24 hours before dying of the abuse, the owner was not regarded as having committed a crime, because -- after all -- the slave was his property.

    Paul had every opportunity to write in one of his Epistles that human slavery -- the owning of one person as a piece of property by another -- is profoundly evil. His letter to Philemon would have been an ideal opportunity to vilify slavery. But he wrote not one word of criticism.
    Jesus could have condemned the practice. He might have done so. But there is no record of him having said anything negative about the institution.

    Eventually, the abolitionists gained sufficient power to eradicate slavery in most areas of the world by the end of the 19th century. Slavery was eventually recognized as an extreme evil. But this paradigm shift in understanding came at a cost. Christians wondered why the Bible was so supportive of such an immoral practice. They questioned whether the Bible was entirely reliable. Perhaps there were other practices that it accepted as normal which were profoundly evil -- like genocide, torturing prisoners, raping female prisoners of war, forcing rape victims to marry their rapists, executing religious minorities, burning some hookers alive, etc. The innocent faith that Christians had in "the Good Book" was lost -- never to be fully regained. "
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time."
    Bertrand Russell

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