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  1. #21
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    But let's face it - Charles hid the Origin of Species for 21 years.

    Some say he was afraid of his wife.

    But we seem to forget he was completely ignorant of how the evolution of species occurred.

    I mean he just didn't know. And as it flew in the face of our creation story, perhaps he thought discretion was he better part of valour.

    Yes, we had to wait about 100 years before James Watson and Francis Crick discovered how the evolution of species occurred.

    Yes, it was the discovery of DNA that put the origin of species beyond reasonable doubt.

    So to argue today for Creationism or Intelligent Design is a lost cause.

  2. #22
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, it was the discovery of DNA that put the origin of species beyond reasonable doubt.

    So to argue today for Creationism or Intelligent Design is a lost cause.
    Beyond reasonable doubt?

    I'm not saying evolution is logically impossible, (although it may be--if it is I've not detangled the metaphysical issues needed to show that, nor do I know of anyone who has), but it's improbable. The only good reason to believe in evolution, (as it is popularly conceived), would be if one were certain that universal naturalism supported by material monism were true; i.e., despite evolution's low probablility based on what we know about how matter and DNA behaves, there is no logical alternative, and so evolution must be true. But there is good reason to believe that both material monism and universal naturalism are false, and there are other logically possible, more probable, alternatives.

    I find it very easy to doubt the veracity of evolution. In fact, I think arguing for evolution is a lost cause, but that is another matter.

  3. #23
    Junior Member Krwheel's Avatar
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    Ya know I read through some of these threads and see arguments about Evolution vs. Creationism, There is a God vs. There is no god, and I kinda wonder what the point is. Does one side or the other really matter that much to any of you?

    What I tend to think is important is how have you developed your value system? And by value system, I don't mean, what you believe in, I mean your moral code for life. How do you decide whether or not you should do something? That's what I'm interested in! I don't really give a rats @$$ if you believe in God or not, I don't care about what you think about how we got here, because none of that has any effect on me whatsoever. Now what does affect me, is what moral code you want to live by and what moral code you expect society to live by and accept. Let's talk about that!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    I find it very easy to doubt the veracity of evolution.
    Yes, you are quite right. I was easy to doubt the origin of species before James and Francis discovered DNA.

    In fact there is some reason to think that Charles himself doubted the origin of species in that he hid his discovery for 21 years.

    But thanks to James and Francis we now know the origin of species and it is digital, just like the computer in front of you, encoded in the DNA.

    And we can now precisely measure and map the relationships of all species.

    And guess what! We all come from the same DNA whether you are a banana or Mr Owl.

    All of us, all life, is intimately and forever connected. We all share precisely and exactly the same DNA.

    We are indeed one.

  5. #25
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And we can now precisely measure and map the relationships of all species.

    All of us, all life, is intimately and forever connected. We all share precisely and exactly the same DNA.

    We are indeed one.
    Similarity in structure does not entail similarity in origin or common ancestry.

    It may be the result of a common plan.

  6. #26
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krwheel View Post
    Ya know I read through some of these threads and see arguments about Evolution vs. Creationism, There is a God vs. There is no god, and I kinda wonder what the point is. Does one side or the other really matter that much to any of you?

    What I tend to think is important is how have you developed your value system? And by value system, I don't mean, what you believe in, I mean your moral code for life. How do you decide whether or not you should do something? That's what I'm interested in! I don't really give a rats @$$ if you believe in God or not, I don't care about what you think about how we got here, because none of that has any effect on me whatsoever. Now what does affect me, is what moral code you want to live by and what moral code you expect society to live by and accept. Let's talk about that!
    Well if we all share the same DNA, it makes nonsense of anthropologic typology.

    As anthropologic typology is the division of the human species into races. And it is called racism.

    And psychologic typology, MBTI, was the sister of anthropologic typology.

    And the anthropologic typologists lost WW II, so they transferred their theory to psychologic typology, MBTI. In much the same way that Creationists transferred their beliefs to Intelligent Design.

    So just as anthropologic typology divides the human species into races, psychologic typology divides the human species into mental types.

    Both typologies serve the same function of dividing the human species into types.

    And we are divided up to avoid facing our common humanity. Just as Jews and Americans were divided out in Mumbai for torture and murder.

  7. #27
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    Intelligent design does not necessitate a creator. It could be aliens.
    Ah, but who created the aliens?

    3 guesses why I feel like watching Maximum Overdrive now...and the first two don't count.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    Similarity in structure does not entail similarity in origin or common ancestry.

    It may be the result of a common plan.
    DNA give birth to DNA.

    It is a result of natural selection.

    If you have a copy of the plan, I would be delighted to see it.

    In fact if you could show us such a plan, it would make you most famous person in the world.

  9. #29
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Ah, but who created the aliens?

    3 guesses why I feel like watching Maximum Overdrive now...and the first two don't count.
    1) You're bored.

    2) Warren Buffet offered to pay you a million dollars if you watch it right now.

    3) I don't know. Never heard of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post

    If you have a copy of the plan, I would be delighted to see it.

    In fact if you could show us such a plan, it would make you most famous person in the world.
    I'd like to see it too. There are others mapping it out as we type.

  10. #30
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    dudes, ID has as much to do with the laws of the universe as it does "how the frig did this happen here on this rock, Earth?" ... so it isn't even about "aliens"... more like a Matrix-esque, Neo coming to a grand architect and asking "Who set-up this shit and why?"

    The carbon atom and the water molecule alone should fucking baffle you endlessly. I'd list the unique properties of both but I'm toasted atm

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