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  1. #111
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    And this concludes today's talk.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  2. #112
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    Creationism - Irrefutable evidence of the evolution of stupidity!


  3. #113

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    I dont believe in any of those theories, there are category errors going on there. A little like getting a sociologist to disassemble and reassemble your car. Different disciplines, different purposes, different, different, different.

  4. #114
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Oddly enough, EcK's post seems to predate RaptorWizard's by over three years.

    Why the hell did you bother to necro this thread with a more than underwhelming picture?
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  5. #115
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    It should be Creationism vs. abiogensis, or Intelligent Design vs. reducible complexity.

    ID and Evolution aren't opposed. Nor are Creationism and Evolution.

    Abiogensis is the concept that life arose by itself through natural events. Creationism tends to oppose this.

    Intelligent Design opposes reducible complexity. Basically all the components of something need to be able to happen on their own. ID has mostly been shot down because given examples of irreducible complexity have all turned out to be actually reducible to smaller components that could occur on their own. They thought that if something is irreducibly complex, such that it must exist as a whole structure with complex parts or not at all, then it requires intelligent design. Problem is that things don't work that way.

    The last thing that got solved to put down the defense of ID was the flagella of microorganisms - they believed that the flagella was too complex to arise out of more basic components and must have been designed. This too was eventually found to be false.

    Edit: also Creationism and ID tend to imply each other but they are not the same. This is because ID states specifically that certain things must have been designed to exist. Creationism doesn't have this exact specification because it's possible that something didn't have to be designed or consciously created, yet still was anyway.

  6. #116

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    If someone provides a specific, self-consistent, testable definition for "irreducible complexity". Then we can talk about it as a scientific concept. For the most part, all I see the ID community do is point to something and say that is irreducibly complex (ATP synthase was one, but homologues for it, and some sense of its evolution were known for this even before ID people pointed to it).

    RNA world and simulations regarding the origins of life is an area of research (although I find it rather speculative at the moment) I am interested in. Abiogenesis and panspermia are the competing theories I find favorable regarding how life originated on earth. If pansmermia is true, than it leaves open the question of how life originated to begin with.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  7. #117
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    We now know there are more planets in the universe than stars, so it is likely life has begun on countless planets. And we know that life will be ordered by natural selection.

    At the same time we know on planet Earth that some protestants and most muslims believe in creationism or intelligent design.

    Both can't be right so we look to the evidence using our reason. And what do we find?

    We find the evidence for natural selection is overwhelming and the evidence for creationism or intelligent design is underwhelming.

    And what we have yet to discover is how life began on this planet and all the other planets.

    Perhaps a clue is that all life is made from the very stuff of the universe so perhaps we will find life arises naturally all over the universe, and then proceeds by natural selection.

  8. #118
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    If someone provides a specific, self-consistent, testable definition for "irreducible complexity". Then we can talk about it as a scientific concept. For the most part, all I see the ID community do is point to something and say that is irreducibly complex (ATP synthase was one, but homologues for it, and some sense of its evolution were known for this even before ID people pointed to it).

    RNA world and simulations regarding the origins of life is an area of research (although I find it rather speculative at the moment) I am interested in. Abiogenesis and panspermia are the competing theories I find favorable regarding how life originated on earth. If pansmermia is true, than it leaves open the question of how life originated to begin with.
    Yes. People just want to believe, that's all.

    Some people will say "Where are the transitional fossils?" then you go and find a transitional fossil and they will say "See?? Now you need even more transitional fossils! There's TWO gaps now!"

    When H. sapiens idaltu was discovered and classified as a modern transitional human, one organization went so far as to say that "These weren't humans. They were animals that looked like humans." and justified it by saying "You classified them as Homo sapiens idaltu. Since they aren't Homo sapiens sapiens, they aren't human."

  9. #119
    WALMART
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    :deadhorse:


    i really hope there's a graphic for that

    no? darn.
    Last edited by WALMART; 08-14-2012 at 04:51 PM. Reason: i didn't see how badly raptorwizard necro'd. oops.

  10. #120
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    :deadhorse:


    i really hope there's a graphic for that

    no? darn.

    :beathorse :
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
    5 so/sp
    Chaotic Neutral/Evil

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