For the Torah, Qur'an, and Bible tells me so

[Anja]

And if that isn't bad enough, all of your dead relatives and neighbors are watching you too!

 

[kendoiwan]

Hell strangers you don't even know

 

[kendoiwan]

God is watching everything you do
When you get undressed or take a shower
When you touch yourself for hour after hour
God is watching everything you do
And He thinks you're a nasty, naughty nympho slut!
You sinful filthy whore you're going to hell!
Your flesh will burn, your bones will churn
Your soul will be torn asunder
You wretched heathen heretic, burn in hell
For eternity!
So you better remember!
God is watching everything you do!

That is highly awesome. Where's it from?

 

[01011010]

Kiddo,

The part 6 cartoon is nifty. In fact, part 6 overall was most excellent. I always think it's kind of strange for conservative people to focus on how gay people have sex.



-------------------

Also, John Stewart had a solid point. "Being religious is far more of a lifestyle choice than being gay."

 

[ajblaise]

lol at the pie in the face in part 2.

It looks like this documentary won some awards, and it's pretty good so far. It's not strictly informative and non-partial, but I don't really expect that of documentaries.

 

[Sniffles]

That is highly awesome. Where's it from?

It's from the "Clum babies" espisode of Drawn Together.

 

[kendoiwan]

It's from the "Clum babies" espisode of Drawn Together.

Do you have a link you could share?

 

[Sniffles]

Do you have a link you could share?

Here's a synopis of the episode:
Drawn Together: Clum Babies Recap - TV.com

It keeps getting deleted off youtube. Bastards!

 

[kendoiwan]

Here's a synopis of the episode:
Drawn Together: Clum Babies Recap - TV.com

It keeps getting deleted off youtube. Bastards!

Youtube is so corporate. I actually saw the ep now that I read the synopsis. I don't recall the song but hey, awesome is as awesome does.

 

[ajblaise]

Kiddo,

The part 6 cartoon is nifty. In fact, part 6 overall was most excellent. I always think it's kind of strange for conservative people to focus on how gay people have sex.

Yeah, some seem to have a very odd relationship with homosexuality. I remember reading a study on how people with negative and unfavorable positions on homosexuality were shown various sexual images, and they were shown to get more aroused by the homosexual images than the people with an accepting and tolerant attitude towards homosexuality.

 

[Sniffles]

That was the most memorable part of the episode. I couldn't stop laughing when I first heard it, and Im a devout Catholic.

 

[kendoiwan]

That was the most memorable part of the episode. I couldn't stop laughing when I first heard it, and Im a devout Catholic.

I caught it at the end tho', I'll be sure to look out for it next time.

 

[Kiddo]

Yeah, some seem to have a very odd relationship with homosexuality. I remember reading a study on how people with negative and unfavorable positions on homosexuality were shown various sexual images, and they were shown to get more aroused by the homosexual images than the people with an accepting and tolerant attitude towards homosexuality.

You are probably talking about this study...

YouTube - The Truth About Homophobes

http://www.oogachaga.com/downloads/homophobia_and_homosexual_arousal.pdf

Right?

Small sample though and far from conclusive, but it was definitely an interesting result.

 

[ajblaise]

You are probably talking about this study...

YouTube - The Truth About Homophobes

http://www.oogachaga.com/downloads/homophobia_and_homosexual_arousal.pdf

Right?

Small sample though and far from conclusive, but it was definitely an interesting result.

Yeah this must be it. Nice video they made out of it. It would be interesting if the idea of homosexual homophobes becomes more well-known and popular... mostly because it's so controversial.

 

[01011010]

What a moving film. I think it's so important for people to come out for some of the many reasons illustrated in the film. I believe there will always be a percentage of society that rejects homosexuality, but times are changing.

Bishop Gene Robinson living his truth, speaks for itself.

 

[Totenkindly]

Interesting excerpt:

As an aside: Sodom and Gamorrah is interesting.

If you read the story, the context clearly is that the visitors were going to be raped not because the townspeople were into gay sex, but because they wanted to humiliate the outsiders. (Essentially a gang rape.)

Hospitality was a Big Deal to the Jews.
Outsiders were supposed to be accorded respect.
For them to be treated this way is a vile offense according to their custom.

This is the cross-reference to the New Testament, where Sodom is accused not of homosexuality as its primary sin but a lack of hospitality and damned because of that.

In any case, this particular video is one I hear being touted a great deal by the MCC denominations and other churches that do not exclude gays from their congregations.

Another good documentary involving both gay and trans themes is "Red Without Blue," focusing on two identical twins, one of whom identifies as gay and the other as trans. It doesn't deal with religion overtly, and the story is more personal rather than broad, but the family and social dynamics revolve around similar themes.

 

[Night]

Discouraging unconventional social behavior always seems more about working to prevent non-traditional activities from influencing majority perspective (thereby weakening established hierarchy) than protecting pop concepts like morality or religious culture.

In this case, it seems religion simply offers a powerful deterrent (final damnation) as a bulwark strategy to protect the bottom line of those in political/fiscal control of a community of people. Homosexuality has been offered as a moral panic -- as a theme, it's been unfairly twisted to appear as an apparent threat to traditional reproductive behavior and domestic routine.

Whether it would actually threaten the religion itself isn't as important as the perception that it could change the way people behave and therefore negatively redefine a culture away from those who benefit from the way things have been.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

"For the Bible Tells Me So..." is one of the most provocative documentaries on the Bible's stance on homosexuality that I have ever seen. Somebody has posted it on youtube in several parts, so I welcome you all to watch it and share your thoughts.

YouTube - Homosexual Abomination? HQ (Intro to Full Movie) 1
YouTube - Homosexual Abomination? Part 2.
YouTube - Homosexual Abomination? Part 3
YouTube - Homosexual Abomination? Part 4.
YouTube - Homosexual Abomination? Part 5
YouTube - Homosexual Abomination? Part 6
YouTube - Homosexual Abomination? Part 7
YouTube - Homosexual Abomination? Part 8
YouTube - Homosexual Abomination? Part 9
YouTube - Homosexual Abomination? Part 10
YouTube - Homosexual Abomination? Part 11 (end)

I'm currently on Part 4 of this. It looks pretty interesting so far.

I've read every passage in the Bible that refers to "homosexuality" (or as close as it gets in ancient terms), and overall it seems pretty vague. The most important passage I think is Acts 15. The focus of Acts 15 is actually more on circumcision, and while Paul is saying that circumcision is not necessary for anyone who is not culturally Jewish, at the same time he also throws out (almost) all of the other Old Testament laws.

I say almost because the two things he says to keep from Leviticus are the dietary laws and the sexual laws. This of course begs the question, "why these laws specifically", and in truth I really don't know. If you look at Leviticus, some of the laws were clearly for sanitation purposes (like burying your feces or washing in running water), some had an obvious moral element (like leaving food in the fields for foreign people to eat), and others were obviously for cultural Jews (like circumcision and the feasts). What category do the sexual laws fall under? I think it's vague enough the people can intrepet it essentially any way they want to.

The main conclusion that I come to is however one interprets the sexual laws, they should also interpret the dietary laws the same way. Anyone who thinks homosexuality is an abomination should seriously lay off the pork chops. Why don't people do this? Because the issue is really not about religion. It's about people finding a scapegoat for their problems and prejudices. The Bible is actually more clear about condemning divorce, so why isn't there a big outcry against divorce? Because a lot of church goers are divorced. (I am just picking divorce as one example, there are actually lots of others.)

So essentially homosexuality is really a cultural issue that people try to disguise as a religious issue (or at very least this is what the leaders do). I'm not really singling out homophobes for doing this, since there are other situations where one issue is disguised as another so people can save face, but it still doesn't make it the right thing to do.

 

[Kiddo]

What a moving film. I think it's so important for people to come out for some of the many reasons illustrated in the film. I believe there will always be a percentage of society that rejects homosexuality, but times are changing.

Bishop Gene Robinson living his truth, speaks for itself.

Thanks again for watching it and sharing your thoughts. The story of the Bishop actually did a lot to redeem Christianity in my eyes.

As an aside: Sodom and Gamorrah is interesting.

If you read the story, the context clearly is that the visitors were going to be raped not because the townspeople were into gay sex, but because they wanted to humiliate the outsiders. (Essentially a gang rape.)

Hospitality was a Big Deal to the Jews.
Outsiders were supposed to be accorded respect.
For them to be treated this way is a vile offense according to their custom.

This is the cross-reference to the New Testament, where Sodom is accused not of homosexuality as its primary sin but a lack of hospitality and damned because of that.

In any case, this particular video is one I hear being touted a great deal by the MCC denominations and other churches that do not exclude gays from their congregations.

Another good documentary involving both gay and trans themes is "Red Without Blue," focusing on two identical twins, one of whom identifies as gay and the other as trans. It doesn't deal with religion overtly, and the story is more personal rather than broad, but the family and social dynamics revolve around similar themes.

Thanks for watching. I'll definitely give "Red Without Blue" a look.

Personally, I'm always worried that so much attention gets paid to the gay side of the gender role issue that people forget that there is a transsexual side as well. It's like whenever one subordinate group makes progress another one is left behind to take over a lot of the crap.

Discouraging unconventional social behavior always seems more about working to prevent non-traditional activities from influencing majority perspective (thereby weakening established hierarchy) than protecting pop concepts like morality or religious culture.

In this case, it seems religion simply offers a powerful deterrent (final damnation) as a bulwark strategy to protect the bottom line of those in political/fiscal control of a community of people. Homosexuality has been offered as a moral panic -- as a theme, it's been unfairly twisted to appear as an apparent threat to traditional reproductive behavior and domestic routine.

Whether it would actually threaten the religion itself isn't as important as the perception that it could change the way people behave and therefore negatively redefine a culture away from those who benefit from the way things have been.

That is an interesting sociological perspective on the issue. I'll have to give that some thought.

So essentially homosexuality is really a cultural issue that people try to disguise as a religious issue (or at very least this is what the leaders do). I'm not really singling out homophobes for doing this, since there are other situations where one issue is disguised as another so people can save face, but it still doesn't make it the right thing to do.

I think once prejudice can no longer be supported by the facts, that people are forced to use subjective arguments, such as their religious/intuitive beliefs, to make a case. But I agree in large part with the film. What has made people apprehensive of sexuality is the inherent patriarchal structure of our society. And homosexuality, feminism, and transsexualism are all seen as threats to that traditionally established structure.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I think once prejudice can no longer be supported by the facts, that people are forced to use subjective arguments, such as their religious/intuitive beliefs, to make a case.

Actually if prejudice is supported by "facts", then it's worse, because it can be more deceptive. As Mark Twain is often quoted as saying, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

But I agree in large part with the film. What has made people apprehensive of sexuality is the inherent patriarchal structure of our society. And homosexuality, feminism, and transsexualism are all seen as threats to that traditionally established structure.

I agree that is one aspect, but I think there is a cause that is more fundamental than that. Many people need a scapegoat so that they can feel more comfortable with their own inadequacies. Right now homosexuals make an easy scapegoat. In the past African Americans used to have more of that focus, but it's no longer acceptable to openly discriminate against them, so the focus has shifted to homosexuals. Here is an example from wikipedia:

A number of prominent members of the Christian right, including Jerry Falwell and Rousas John Rushdoony, have in the past supported segregation, with Falwell arguing in a 1958 sermon that integration will lead to the destruction of the white race. He later claimed he changed his views.

Christian right - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I mention this example in particular, because I think the leaders of these anti-gay initiatives are mostly just playing on people's prejudices to get power. I'm not even sure how much they believe what they are saying. Falwell used to be for segregation, but once that stopped being acceptable he switched to an anti-gay message. This is the sort of thing that plays out not only in religion, but in any human institution where significant power can be gained (politics, business, etc...). In this case though it is fairly easy to point out.