For the Torah, Qur'an, and Bible tells me so

[Kiddo]

The whole "awww maybe some day you'll see the light and repent for your sinful lifestyle, but we still love you!" is certainly much better than outright unbridled hatred, but I imagine for homosexuals it must be ungodly patronizing.

Yes. But you get used to it.

They base their argument on their particular definition of natural. They define natural as living in accordance with God's design. They argue that to live outside of God's design is to sin, and God created our reproductive organs with the purpose of procreation. Therefore, only a man and woman are allowed to have sex together, otherwise you are living separate of God's grand design and thus sinning.

 

[simulatedworld]

I didn't express my opinion. Since you asked, no they're not more important, but keeping human babies from being killed with impunity and not letting society pretend that two people of the same sex can be married are indeed important.

This notion about gay marriage is based on the near-ubiquitous misinterpretation of what it is that the gay marriage movement actually seeks.

You must understand that there are two separate and distinct forms of marriage in modern society. A religious couple, upon deciding to marry, will typically seek out BOTH marriage licenses--one from City Hall for the state's blessing, and one from the church, for God's blessing.

I will state again, because it is so vital to understanding the debate, that there are two separate and distinct forms of marriage. The gay marriage movement doesn't demand that we barge into churches and force them to perform sacred religious ceremonies for gays--if anyone advocated that method, I would be appalled at such an outrageous intrusion upon first amendment rights to free exercise of religion.

All they want is the legal right, period. They want the visitation rights, the tax cuts, the legal immunity, etc. etc....the gay marriage movement is not a moral referendum on homosexuality! Remember that a marriage ceremony in a church is totally unrecognized by the state, and a marriage ceremony in City Hall is totally unrecognized by God...many people just choose to have both.

The next argument you offer here is typically "well the legal form of marriage is obviously based on the current Christian conception of marriage, so it's not as important", etc. etc., at which point I'd remind you that the concept of marriage predates Christianity and even Judaism by thousands of years! Read up on a little history and you'll find that the precious religious ceremony you hold so dearly has been borrowed and borrowed again by hundreds of different belief systems throughout history--and yours was by no means the first to adopt it.

More importantly, though--they are not asking for God's blessing--only the state's! And there is a clear and distinct difference there.


----
Also, on the topic of abortion--you have a valid argument against it, assuming that the human soul is, in fact, impressed upon a zygote at the very moment of conception. But if you want to prevent this argument from becoming totally unsound (and thereby give yourself some basis on which to legislate this moral view), you need to give the rest of us a convincing argument as to why we should believe in the soul or assume that this 2-day-old clump of cells which does not yet feel or perceive anything is actually a human life.

I know, I know--you don't need to prove it to us because it's a matter of faith! And that's fine--feel free to abstain from having anything to do with abortions for your entire life, for all I care--just don't make laws declaring that I have to do the same, unless you can offer reasoned, objective evidence.

 

[Venom]

This notion about gay marriage is based on the near-ubiquitous misinterpretation of what it is that the gay marriage movement actually seeks.

You must understand that there are two separate and distinct forms of marriage in modern society. A religious couple, upon deciding to marry, will typically seek out BOTH marriage licenses--one from City Hall for the state's blessing, and one from the church, for God's blessing.

I will state again, because it is so vital to understanding the debate, that there are two separate and distinct forms of marriage. The gay marriage movement doesn't demand that we barge into churches and force them to perform sacred religious ceremonies for gays--if anyone advocated that method, I would be appalled at such an outrageous intrusion upon first amendment rights to free exercise of religion.

All they want is the legal right, period. They want the visitation rights, the tax cuts, the legal immunity, etc. etc....the gay marriage movement is not a moral referendum on homosexuality! Remember that a marriage ceremony in a church is totally unrecognized by the state, and a marriage ceremony in City Hall is totally unrecognized by God...many people just choose to have both.

The next argument you offer here is typically "well the legal form of marriage is obviously based on the current Christian conception of marriage, so it's not as important", etc. etc., at which point I'd remind you that the concept of marriage predates Christianity and even Judaism by thousands of years! Read up on a little history and you'll find that the precious religious ceremony you hold so dearly has been borrowed and borrowed again by hundreds of different belief systems throughout history--and yours was by no means the first to adopt it.

More importantly, though--they are not asking for God's blessing--only the state's! And there is a clear and distinct difference there.


----
Also, on the topic of abortion--you have a valid argument against it, assuming that the human soul is, in fact, impressed upon a zygote at the very moment of conception. But if you want to prevent this argument from becoming totally unsound (and thereby give yourself some basis on which to legislate this moral view), you need to give the rest of us a convincing argument as to why we should believe in the soul or assume that this 2-day-old clump of cells which does not yet feel or perceive anything is actually a human life.

I know, I know--you don't need to prove it to us because it's a matter of faith! And that's fine--feel free to abstain from having anything to do with abortions for your entire life, for all I care--just don't make laws declaring that I have to do the same, unless you can offer reasoned, objective evidence.

its all linguistic superstition. people have these superstitious beliefs about what a word means, when all it really is: is a word (it doesn't reside in some supernatural realm). A word just describes a pattern that we observe in the world. If marriage in a dictionary lists qualities a, b and c, yet we only find "a" and "b" in actual practice, then what we have is linguistic superstition.

1. marriage in reality, in actual practice, is not just about having kids (man and woman required apparently ) because there are plenty of marriages that dont focus on making kids

2. ...its not even about just "raising kids" (gays have proven they can do that without harming the kids sexual preferences)... and again, many marriages have nothing to do with kids.

3. marriage is really about forming a team between two people: a financial and legal team. people dont like that because it makes it sound "cold". there is nothing "cold" about declaring you like someone enough that you wish to be a legal and financial team for a (hopefully) extremely long time! That is what marriage is in practice and there is no reason gays cant do what I just described.

 

[01011010]

Kiddo and I have added new material to the OP. An Islam, Judaism, and brain washing "Jesus Camp" documentary.