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  1. #131
    Member TrueHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I especially like the part where it says you can beat your slaves, you just have to make sure you don't beat them to death, and also the part where it says you can sale your own daughter into slavery. And don't forget the part where it values a slave's life at 30 shekels of silver. Great kindness and respect right there.

    You really do have only the fondest interpretation of you own religion, doncha Peguy?
    Actually, he doesn't have the fundamentalistic, literalistic mindset that you seem to have.
    "There can be no understanding between the hands and the head unless the heart acts as mediator." (Metropolis, 1927)

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  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueHeart View Post
    Actually, he doesn't have the fundamentalistic, literalistic mindset that you seem to have.
    Yes, Peguy does.

    Though, he's always prepared to back up what he believes. There's nothing wrong with that. This forum is for discussion and debate. Without opposing or different view points, there wouldn't be much activity. Don't take what is said here personally.

  3. #133
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Your so right. That's the next logical step for sure.

    It's 100% certain animals are sentient beings. They can definitely give consent, and sign a marriage contract to boot. Let's give them legal rights for marriage too!
    Well, maybe not a marriage "contract", but give the rest of it time. They'll find more evidence and conclude that animals are totally sentient (after all; they're made up of the same chemical processes as us; there's no such thing as a "soul" or "spirit' some argue), and some are monogamous (which was once a Christian argument against fornication and adultery), and some do "consent" to the act (like a female cat in heat will position themselves no matter who touches them).
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  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Good for your church, but that certainly doesn't mean you adhere to those beliefs.
    Oh is that so? Well my church still opposes gay marriage. Furthermore, perhaps this post of mine would interest you.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Well, maybe not a marriage "contract", but give the rest of it time. They'll find more evidence and conclude that animals are totally sentient (after all; they're made up of the same chemical processes as us; there's no such thing as a "soul" or "spirit' some argue), and some are monogamous (which was once a Christian argument against fornication and adultery), and some do "consent" to the act (like a female cat in heat will position themselves no matter who touches them).
    Body language will never provide enough data to determine actual consent. Nor are they capable of critical thinking skills. Having sex with an animal is abuse. Since they can never truly consent, it's basically molestation.

    There is an insurmountable difference between two consenting adults who love each other --wishing to be joined in a legally recognized and protected union, and having sexual relations with an animal. Regardless of gender, affection between two humans is affection that can be returned in equal parts with thought and reason. Sex, as a result of affection, is similar for all human beings.

  6. #136
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueHeart View Post
    Actually, he doesn't have the fundamentalistic, literalistic mindset that you seem to have.
    Perhaps I should come clean.

    I give Peguy a hard time for his selective perception and spin, but I have only the greatest admiration for the respect and tolerance he shows to individuals who hold different beliefs than him. We may seldom agree when it comes to theology, but I consider him a true Christian by all accounts.

    I've encountered so called Christians who have argued that because of my sexual orientation alone that I deserve to be killed, that I'm a sociopath, that I'm a disease on society, that I must be a whore, that I must have been molested by an older male when I was a child, that I must have some sort of genetic or developmental disorder, that I immoral and destined for hell, and so many other wonderful things.

    Peguy, by comparison, is a breath of fresh air, and while I have come to detest his religion for some of the fruits it has born, I in no way think any less of him for believing in it. I goad him with literalism simply because it is nice to be reminded that some Christians still remember to love their neighbors.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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  7. #137
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    It's not necessarily watered down as much as it is progressive. The world is incredibly small for those that practice extremely orthodox. Think Amish. Humans evolve. Resources, technology, types of necessary jobs, and laws all change. Reform has been around since the 1800s and use to be the largest practicing branch in the U.S. (up to 80%+ and currently accounts for half the American Jew population). They want to retain Judaism, but only what makes sense in present time. Reform Judaism definitely has a sprinkling of agnosticism and existentialism. With an emphasis on science and reason. It doesn't make it less Jewish, just reasonable for the modern era.

    Why should people that believe in the Jewish version of God, but not the impractical dogma and outdated rules/rituals, be without faith?
    Perhaps because the Jewish version of God is inherently impractical dogma?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #138
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenINsFJ View Post
    Sorry, I haven't read the thread yet, just read the first post and watching the movies, and typing a response as the movie progresses.

    Response to intro - I notice that I heard a lot of "KILL THEM" "HATE FAGGOTS" etc. "The bible has been used to segregate race, women, and now gays."
    Often times, I suppress my beliefs on topics such as this because I don't care to get into debates with people about MY beliefs, nor do I care to push MY beliefs on others. Before going any further, yes, I am religious. No, I am not perfect in any way, shape, or form. To be completely honest here, any Christian that ever says "Hate Faggots" "They should die" or anything along that line, is not a Christian. You must keep that in mind. It is actually a tactic used to help spread hatred against Christianity, thus ruining it's reputation. Anyone can embrace a religion and say they represent it when they don't. It's hypocritical, and many people don't see past that, and automatically assume that all Christians share that belief. How often I hear people trash talk my religion, and I don't categorize all atheists.

    Part 1- The biggest misconception about Christianity(because it is spread so much.. a rumor) is that God and all Christians HATE gays. Incorrect. Homosexuality is considered to be a SIN, and it is the sinful behavior that is not tolerated. It is not the people. And by no means is homosexuality considered any worse than any of the other sins, gluttony, sloth, promiscuous, etc. For God does love all, including homosexuals, he hates none. Just the acts. I've had lots of gay friends in middle school and high school, some close, some not, and it's not about hating people. Being an Asian guy, I've gotten hit on a lot by gay people, and I don't get offended in any way, I just let them know I'm not gay, and that's all.

    Oh wow, there are a lot of parts, I can't watch all of it.
    Anyways, I'll cut my post short and leave it at that, lol.

    What grounds, exactly, does religion have to declare homosexuality immoral? Where did that belief come from, anyway? Is it because they can't reproduce? Should it then be sinful for sterile people to mate or have relationships?

    I think it's incredibly pretentious for religion or religious leaders of any sort to declare that homosexuality is immoral. The whole "awww maybe some day you'll see the light and repent for your sinful lifestyle, but we still love you!" is certainly much better than outright unbridled hatred, but I imagine for homosexuals it must be ungodly patronizing.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #139
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilen View Post
    Thus burning Sodom and Gomorrah to the ground were divine acts of -fiery- passionate love; for indeed God works in mysterious ways.

    bahahaha <3
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #140
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Homosexuality in the animal kingdom has been known for quite some time. Giraffes and Sheep in particular. Even Gorillas and Elephants. The real question is, can animals answer whether or not homosexuality is natural for homo sapiens.


    Better question: does anyone actually care if it's "natural" or not? Modern society includes an awful lot of things (contact lenses, polyester, antidepressants, chemotherapy...) that are obviously unnatural and, indeed, intended to subvert nature itself. Most are not considered immoral and never have been, so why does homosexuality count any differently?

    I've heard the "it's unnatural!" argument an awful lot but I still haven't heard any reason I should actually care, or any way to connect that to "it's immoral."
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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