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  1. #111
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Well, there are lots of things written down today that claim to represent what he talked about. Perhaps these are limited to the things that mattered to the apostle authors?
    Well, true too -- there was a definitely a filter in place between the tangible acts/words of Jesus and the record we currently have of it, and that has to be accounted for as well in terms of figuring out how to understand the information that got to us.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  2. #112
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, true too -- there was a definitely a filter in place between the tangible acts/words of Jesus and the record we currently have of it, and that has to be accounted for as well in terms of figuring out how to understand the information that got to us.
    Imagine this scenario. Jesus is pro homosexuality, but an influential apostle is not. Wonder how his words might be recorded...

  3. #113
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Jesus is pro homosexuality,
    The Beatitudes might have been far longer:
    "Blessed are the Gay..."

    ... but an influential apostle is not. Wonder how his words might be recorded...
    Especially if he had a crush on the messiah and had been shunned for a lesser disciple?

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    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #114
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Oh please forgive me for posting this video but I couldn't resist.

    Warning: Language and Sexual Content

    YouTube - Jesus Can Make You Gay says Leviticus International
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  5. #115
    Member TrueHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think the point is simply that it's an annoying irony, if you'd comb through all the public commentary by followers of Jesus nowadays, to see what percentage of attention is focused on two issues that weren't really part of the talking points of the guy that everyone is claiming to represent. There's lots of things he DID consistently talk about and intently stress that seem to be less represented/prioritized among the most vocal followers.
    Both of these phenomena might very well be responses to current cultural situations. Jesus didn't need to condemn homosexuality because those who heard him already thought homosexuality was wrong. It need hardly be said that the situation nowadays is different. I'm having trouble understanding why it should not be expected that a different situation calls for a different emphasis in discussion.
    "There can be no understanding between the hands and the head unless the heart acts as mediator." (Metropolis, 1927)

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  6. #116
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueHeart View Post
    ...It need hardly be said that the situation nowadays is different. I'm having trouble understanding why it should not be expected that a different situation calls for a different emphasis in discussion.
    So you're of the opinion that the current emphasis on controlling abortion rights and gay marriage is a more dire need in this country than the wide gulf inherent in the economic system as well as the fracturing of society into tribal groups based partly on religious "us vs. them" demarcation?

    My basic assess is that what is masquerading as religious objection is actually more a fear of a loss of one's way of life in the face of a culture that is becoming increasingly diversified from an ideological stance; and these sort of culture wars are meant to try to preserve the subculture one feels comfortable within, rather than truly being some visionary manifestation of an inclusive kingdom of God.

    What's going on is that people are fighting for their rights and positing others as threats, rather than seeking connection, and using religious tenets as a cover. Which I don't think is what Jesus was about when he proclaimed the Kingdom of God... which, of course, he then got killed for by the religious establishment, using the political system as a patsy.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #117
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueHeart View Post
    Both of these phenomena might very well be responses to current cultural situations. Jesus didn't need to condemn homosexuality because those who heard him already thought homosexuality was wrong. It need hardly be said that the situation nowadays is different. I'm having trouble understanding why it should not be expected that a different situation calls for a different emphasis in discussion.
    I can't speak about first century homosexuality, but I do know that first century Christians were opposed to abortion and (more commonly) infanticide. Sometimes people in the first century would leave their babies out in the wilderness to die, and the Christians would find these babies and raise them as their own children. That is a rather big commitment, and yet neither abortion nor infanticide are mentioned in the New Testament. These issues were important, but not so important that they are ever mentioned in scripture.
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  8. #118
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    abortion rights and gay marriage
    Those are two seperate issues with entirely different factors and consequences involved; most notably, the existence of gay marriage would not violate the rights of others, while abortion (arguably) violates the most fundamental of rights of a third party. Coupling the two only confuses the issue and adds increased division to what is already a highly divisive debate.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 01-05-2009 at 09:27 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The Beatitudes might have been far longer:
    "Blessed are the Gay..."

    Especially if he had a crush on the messiah and had been shunned for a lesser disciple?

    TOTAL! DRAMA! GOSPEL!

  10. #120
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Well, my female cat fell in love with the neighbor's female dachshund last summer but the dawg wasn't having any of it. Obviously on a higher moral plane than my kitty.
    So is bestiality next? With all this "evidence" and such; plus the fact that people "love" their pets, I do not see where there would be any more argument against bestiality than against homosexuality. We apparently just haven't gotten around to that issue yet.
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