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  1. #41
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The death bed conversion is an old trope of Catholicism.

    It is simply an old, worn out cliche of Catholic propaganda.

    And it is simply bad taste to keep on trotting it out.
    What exactly do you mean by propaganda and bad taste?

  2. #42
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    you're playing a dangerous game with your soul really.
    without your memories, skills, abilities, emotional triggers, and stored up experiences, are you really even you? Why should anyone believe that a soul somehow copies all of that same info onto some unknown mechanism when its already all explained through a physical machine (the brain) that we know exists?

    prove that souls exist: ready go!





    (science may not have conciousness 100% figured out, but there are plenty of explanations that at the very least, prevent us from going "well there MUST be a soul then!")

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    What exactly do you mean by propaganda and bad taste?
    I was hoping you wouldn't ask me what, "trope", means 'cause I have never really found out.

    But propaganda means to propagate a set of ideas. While bad taste is more visceral - it's a bad taste in the mouth.

    A set of ideas is called an ideology. And it is worth while remembering that an ideology is predigested thought, it serves interests and has a demonology.

    While bad taste is aesthetic. So a taste is either delicious or foul.

    Ideology is immensely powerful and completely under-rated. And aesthetics are almost the obverse of ideology - perhaps called soft power.

    Hollywood gives us the best propaganda - it seduces with aesthetics, and plays ideology only in the softest key.

    So ideology is thought and aesthetics are taste - we can think what we would like to eat, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I was hoping you wouldn't ask me what, "trope", means 'cause I have never really found out.

    But propaganda means to propagate a set of ideas. While bad taste is more visceral - it's a bad taste in the mouth.

    A set of ideas is called an ideology. And it is worth while remembering that an ideology is predigested thought, it serves interests and has a demonology.

    While bad taste is aesthetic. So a taste is either delicious or foul.

    Ideology is immensely powerful and completely under-rated. And aesthetics are almost the obverse of ideology - perhaps called soft power.

    Hollywood gives us the best propaganda - it seduces with aesthetics, and plays ideology only in the softest key.

    So ideology is thought and aesthetics are taste - we can think what we would like to eat, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
    I think you missed the point (or maybe you just don't want to answer me straightforwardly). I don't see how the church benefits from "trotting out" this old "cliché" in any way. So I don't see how it tastes bad either - regardless of your own beliefs it's either a possibility or not, according to their (christians) own religion, and they say it is.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I think you missed the point (or maybe you just don't want to answer me straightforwardly). I don't see how the church benefits from "trotting out" this old "cliché" in any way. So I don't see how it tastes bad either - regardless of your own beliefs it's either a possibility or not, according to their (christians) own religion, and they say it is.
    Well, they trot out the cliche in order to persuade you. They have done it a thousand times before.

    You might fall for it the first time, but it is less likely the thousandth time.

    And you can't 'see' how anything tastes anymore than you can 'see' how anything sounds. You need to listen to hear. And you actually need to taste rather than look, to know what it tastes like.

    And propaganda is neither true nor false. It is simply plausible.

    So to say that propaganda is either a possibility or not, misses the point of propaganda.

    Propaganda is not so much a possibility or not, it is either believable or not.

    The only sin a propagandist can commit is to believe their own propaganda.

    Their job is not to believe their own propaganda but to get you to believe it.

    Caveat Emptor - would you like to buy this old well used cliche or are you not buying it today?

    So the propagandist only asks, how gullible are you today?

    And let's face it, if you think MBTI is a reliable personality test rather than a cult, you are the perfect shill.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Well, they trot out the cliche in order to persuade you. They have done it a thousand times before.

    You might fall for it the first time, but it is less likely the thousandth time.

    And you can't 'see' how anything tastes anymore than you can 'see' how anything sounds. You need to listen to hear. And you actually need to taste rather than look, to know what it tastes like.

    And propaganda is neither true nor false. It is simply plausible.

    So to say that propaganda is either a possibility or not, misses the point of propaganda.

    Propaganda is not so much a possibility or not, it is either believable or not.

    The only sin a propagandist can commit is to believe their own propaganda.

    Their job is not to believe their own propaganda but to get you to believe it.
    That's like saying they tell you "you can go to heaven if you be a good boy" in order to persuade you.

    Are you just trying to insult them or what? I'm an agnostic myself, but I'd have to be pretty drunk to think not even the church believes in God (obviously there are bound to be exceptions) or in what they preach.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    That's like saying they tell you "you can go to heaven if you be a good boy" in order to persuade you.

    Are you just trying to insult them or what? I'm an agnostic myself, but I'd have to be pretty drunk to think not even the church believes in God (obviously there are bound to be exceptions) or in what they preach.
    Rather than trying to insult them, I recognise that they literally invented the word, "propaganda".

    You plainly do not understand that propaganda is neither true nor false rather, it is simply plausible.

    For instance propaganda was not made in WW II against the enemy on the basis of the existence of the concentration camps, because no one would believe it.

    From the propagandist's point of view, it did not matter whether the concentration camps existed or not. It only mattered whether their existence was plausible. It only mattered whether they were believable. And no one believed in them until they were liberated and pictures distributed throughout the world.

    This is why concentration camps were not used in our propaganda against the enemy in WW II.

    So in exactly the same way, from the propagandist's point of view, it doesn't matter whether God exists or not, only that He is plausible - only that He is believable.

    From the propagandist's eye view, whether God exists is irrelevant or whether He doesn't exist is equally irrelevant to good propaganda.

    Do you believe me?

  8. #48
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Rather than trying to insult them, I recognise that they literally invented the word, "propaganda".

    You plainly do not understand that propaganda is neither true nor false rather, it is simply plausible.

    For instance propaganda was not made in WW II against the enemy on the basis of the existence of the concentration camps, because no one would believe it.

    From the propagandist's point of view, it did not matter whether the concentration camps existed or not. It only mattered whether their existence was plausible. It only mattered whether they were believable. And no one believed in them until they were liberated and pictures distributed throughout the world.

    This is why concentration camps were not used in our propaganda against the enemy in WW II.

    So in exactly the same way, from the propagandist's point of view, it doesn't matter whether God exists or not, only that He is plausible - only that He is believable.

    From the propagandist's eye view, whether God exists is irrelevant or whether He doesn't exist is equally irrelevant to good propaganda.

    Do you believe me?
    No, your post is unbelievable.

    That's some bad propaganda right there.

  9. #49
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    Trust me Sytpg, you're better off not discussing with Victor.


    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    (science may not have conciousness 100% figured out, but there are plenty of explanations that at the very least, prevent us from going "well there MUST be a soul then!")
    Only if one adheres to a naturalist perspective.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    No, your post is unbelievable.

    That's some bad propaganda right there.
    Well, Sytpg, you have caught me there.

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