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  1. #11
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    If I converted on my deathbed to catholicism, (my) God would send me to hell for being weak in the face of death and despair, and violating my principles :p Spiritual Integrity is the only saving grace for those without faith.

    Also peguy, I think the quote in your signature is very ironic yet appropriate for this thead, hehe

  2. #12
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    Forgive me Father for I have sinned.... where's my Jesus Skittles?


    I want Jesus Skittles tooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

    My father was an atheist until the very moment he died, and he died a slow death.

    Is it so hard to believe that you are *not* going to live forever?!!?!?

    That the life you do have is precious, because it is finite!!!
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  3. #13
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I can't for certain what the article itself is trying to say, I can only put it in larger context of how so many people have found their way to the faith. Not all of them were deathbed conversions, in fact most I've read about weren't.

    In the early part of the 20th century, converting to Catholicism was actually considered the cool thing to do among certain circles. It's quite amazing the famous names you find in this company; as you can see here.

    Some names from the list:

    • Tony Blair
    • Buffalo Bill
    • Gary Cooper
    • Faye Dunaway
    • René Girard
    • Graham Greene
    • Sir Alec Guinness
    • Bob Hope
    • Allen Tate
    • J. R. R. Tolkien(converted when little by mother, but a devout Catholic all his life)
    • John Wayne
    • Oscar Wilde
    oscar wilde?! he might of wanted the church, but i doubt they wanted him (with this ridiculous anti-gay religion)

    The argument from popularity is hardly a reason to suddenly re-examine the validity of religion. Its validity or lack there of should lie on its own arguments and merits. It doesnt matter how many or how few believe in it (as far as truth).

  4. #14
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    What one does at the doorstep of death is quite interesting. How much does our last moment alive make of us? If in our last moments we die in faith, do we believe that redeems a life of unfaith? If in our last moments we die a hero, does that redeem a life of cowardism?

  5. #15
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    The argument from popularity is hardly a reason to suddenly re-examine the validity of religion. Its validity or lack there of should lie on its own arguments and merits. It doesnt matter how many or how few believe in it (as far as truth).
    No no, I'm quite enjoying this thread.

    So far we have desperate people on their bed and an implication that conversions have gone down. Seems like atheists do have hope!

  6. #16
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    Quote Originally Posted by placebo View Post
    What one does at the doorstep of death is quite interesting. How much does our last moment alive make of us? If in our last moments we die in faith, do we believe that redeems a life of unfaith? If in our last moments we die a hero, does that redeem a life of cowardism?

    Actually I contend the opposite here: deathbed conversion IS cowardice.

  7. #17
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    oscar wilde?! he might of wanted the church, but i doubt they wanted him (with this ridiculous anti-gay religion)
    You can read more here:
    The Long Conversion of Oscar Wilde

    The argument from popularity is hardly a reason to suddenly re-examine the validity of religion. Its validity or lack there of should lie on its own arguments and merits. It doesnt matter how many or how few believe in it (as far as truth).
    Where did I say the validity of Catholicism rests in its popularity? It certainly shows that it cannot be merely dismissed as the refuge of old delusional women or pedophile priests. Plenty of influential people have been drawn to the faith.

    Also peguy, I think the quote in your signature is very ironic yet appropriate for this thead, hehe
    Interesting, why do you say so? Let's also take into account that Charles Peguy was himself a Catholic convert - or rather revert.

  8. #18
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    Actually I contend the opposite here: deathbed conversion IS cowardice.
    Oh, but with that question I wasn't referring to this specific situation. The one about faith was, but the heroism/cowardism question, was just a parallel question about a different matter. Say, imagine if there was a man who died saving hundreds of people from tragic death, and in that moment was a hero, but throughout his entire life before, he was just a cowardly figure who couldn't stand up for anything. Does that final action redeem his life of cowardice?

  9. #19
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    "Interesting, why do you say so? Let's also take into account that Charles Peguy was himself a Catholic convert - or rather revert. "

    It has nothing to do with peguy himself, just the notion at the last minute when faced with death and the possibility of eternal hell, converting is a cowardly attempt to seem "progressive under God".... as if God wouldn't know your deathbed conversion into Catholicism was only insincerely made when faced with death?

    It never ceases to amaze me how many people think they can "trick" God into granting salvation

  10. #20
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    [*]Oscar Wilde[/list]
    There's no direct proof of that, only a dubious letter from his boyfriend Robert Ross, telling he converted a few minutes before dying. But the doctors, who were both present, never acknowledged this story.

    Wilde was a fierce atheist during most of intellectual life. And since the Roman catholic Church then condemned any act of homosexuality as one of the most immoral and evil sin, the possibility that Wilde really converted remains quite questionable.

    The paper you quoted, Peguy, is extremely unaccurate about Wilde's life and facts, and I fear its author is inventing half of them (I've studied Wilde's diary in the National Library of France, so he can't fool me). It's so deeply biased it's almost ridiculous.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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