Could you survive without spirituality?

[Lady_X]

i love that thanks.

 

[Virtual ghost]

LOL Ok I will see u for a rematch tomorrow sweet dreams...

If this was really a game I would have started shooting at you arguments(belifs) long ago but that is not the point of this thread. If people want that and they want a debate on this I am always for it.


I have opened this thread as a neutal zone and to understand why so many people need so much positive energy . At least this is how I see it.

 

[Wild horses]

Yes I know that Antisocial I was just teasing you... It wasn't meant as a declaration of war or anything LOL

 

[Amargith]

I've lived many years without it..or maybe without recognizing it. It makes life more depressing and dull. Once I accepted my path of spirituality, things just clicked. I felt a connection. I felt alive. Could I live without it? Of course. But why would I?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yes I know that Antisocial I was just teasing you... It wasn't meant as a declaration of war or anything LOL

I know, it is just that I wanted to say that I would not mind having a war and this seemed as good opportunity to say it.


The reason why I haven't replyed to plecebo is because that would start a war you speak of.

 

[Wild horses]

well I wouldn't want a war but then I guess that probably because of my sense of spirituality

 

[Virtual ghost]

well I wouldn't want a war but then I guess that probably because of my sense of spirituality

I am curious.

Why are you so sure that if you are "good" and you are helping other people that you are doing the right thing?


I am fully aware of how this question sounds and I think that I know why you think this way. I just want to hear it from you. Of course if you don't mind

 

[Wild horses]

Hang on... I am confused... when did I have profess to being 'good' or helping people, or indeed thinking that I am doing the right thing?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Hang on... I am confused... when did I have profess to being 'good' or helping people, or indeed thinking that I am doing the right thing?

Your post sounds like you are person who doesn't like war/conflict and it looks like that you link this to the fact that you are spiritual.

 

[Wild horses]

Yea maybe my dislike of wars and conflict is linked into my spirituality however, this is not necessarily a conscious connection that I make; I was saying that before as kind of a joke.. I don't mean to be difficult with you but I'm just not sure what assumptions you are projecting onto those with a spiritual life.. I mean satanists believe in the spiritual don't they

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yea maybe my dislike of wars and conflict is linked into my spirituality however, this is not necessarily a conscious connection that I make; I was saying that before as kind of a joke.. I don't mean to be difficult with you but I'm just not sure what assumptions you are projecting onto those with a spiritual life.. I mean satanists believe in the spiritual don't they

That is way I have asked the question few post back that asks in what spiritual people believe.

To me it looks that most of them place themselfs in do-good group or they are imaginative and play more on alternative ways. (or both)

 

[placebo]

I know, it is just that I wanted to say that I would not mind having a war and this seemed as good opportunity to say it.


The reason why I haven't replyed to plecebo is because that would start a war you speak of.

I don't know why you have to think of it as a war. If you have a disagreement or something you want to say, I don't see why you can't just point it out and have a normal discussion about it. I'm open to discussing ideas and points because it clarifies things and can potentially change my own views because I learn from it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I don't know why you have to think of it as a war. If you have a disagreement or something you want to say, I don't see why you can't just point it out and have a normal discussion about it. I'm open to discussing ideas and points because it clarifies things and can potentially change my own views because I learn from it.

Are you sure that that I am the first that used the word war here?

The thing is I didn't open this thread becasue I want confiict but because i am tring to understand other side and why they behave as they behave.

The reason why I am holding back is because I can debate this in a really harsh way.

My positions are that afterlife even if it exists is pointless for sure , I can make god appear as something highy unlikey and even if you say that there is a chance no matter what I will in that case start to use your argument against you to.
If god as religion shows him does not exist that opens entire new chapter of logic. I think that I can argument well that some key parts of ethics are dangerous.

Maybe I am arrogant but I think that I can suck alot of joy out of you.
But my task is not to make you depressed what is likely outcome in the case that you start to take my arguments seriously.



I hope that this makes some sense.

 

[placebo]

Are you sure that that I am the first that used the word war here?

The thing is I didn't open this thread becasue I want confiict but because i am tring to understand other side and why they behave as they behave.

The reason why I am holding back is because I can debate this in a really harsh way.

My positions are that afterlife even if it exists is pointless for sure , I can make god appear as something highy unlikey and even if you say that there is a chance no matter what I will in that case start to use your argument against you to.
If god as religion shows him does not exist that opens entire new chapter of logic. I think that I can argument well that some key parts of ethics are dangerous.

Maybe I am arrogant but I think that I can suck alot of joy out of you.
But my task is not to make you depressed what is likely outcome in the case that you start to take my arguments seriously.



I hope that this makes some sense.

Well I absolutely never started with the word 'war'. You continued to use it in the same context as the others, so I assumed you agreed with it.

I feel that you need to define what you mean by God. I feel like you have not understood my opinion. I do not believe in God as in the Judeo-Christian sense of an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent being. If I believe in any notion of God whatsoever, the concept of God is synonymous with the Universe, which includes by all means the physical laws of nature. I also don't remember expressing any belief in an afterlife.

I am not bothered by arrogance, and there is not much joy in me to suck out, so you do not have to be worried about making me 'depressed' by somehow bursting my bubble of false beliefs you think I hold. I will take all arguments seriously if I think the arguer is serious.

 

[Virtual ghost]

If you want one argument there is no problem.
Here is one of my older posts.

This works for any God not just Christian one.
If there is no afterlife there can be no meaning in this life, We can live it and like it but there is not real point.

But if there is an afterlife then you get in this kinds of problems. Which lead into meaningless existance.

Why?


For example, you like writting books but about what you will write in afterlife?

If you start to write novels you will have a problem becuse there is no infinite number of novels you can write without staring to repeat with time.
Your mind has boundarys and its operates inside of them.

But there is so big number of novels that can be written that it is fun to do it once again. but with time it is unavoidable that you start to repeat yourself once again. What will you do then? Start another cycle?

What will you do after 10 cycles ? 100? 10000? 1000000?
Will you still write novels?

What after 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 cycles ?

I mean you can mix writting with other activity but problem is still out there.

What will you do when that huge number that is writting up there will be number of zeros after number 1 .


There is a fact that you forget things with time but you always will be conscious of the fact that you have done this so many times that you will even need thousands of years to even say the number how many times did you do something.
(becuse it is that Big)

All people that go in to an afterlife could ask God to delete their memory.
(if he/she/it is there)
But in that case people will figure out what happened quite fast and once again you have same problem.

Since you can't die, the problem will be there forever always behind you and ready to destroy any fun that comes your way.
Since you can't die you really can't experiance any real adventure becuse chance of survival is 100%.


What will you do? Ask God to destroy you somehow?

The only way to avoid this problem is that after death god turns you into something else. The point is that your human consciousness is no more so that you can grow and expand further.


But in that case you have another problem. If God can turn good person into something else why can't he do the same with the bad person.
If he can change entire mental concept I don't see why he/she/it can't destroy tiny part that makes someone good or evil?

So all logical conclusions lead to sitation that there is no good and evil or right and wrong in reality we live in. (Afterlife included)
I say this becuse all of us will get the benefits or no one will on the long run. If all of us don't get the same path that is not fair at all. Becuse you are not guilty for the fact that you have personality disorder or that your parents did not love you when you were a baby.

If right and wrong do exist, all of us are predetermined to eternity we will not like. But if all of us will be turned to nonhumans, something might just come out right.



Or the truth is something so abstract that human brain can't do anything about the problem. Why so may people think that there will be the end of the world soon. It is because world without the end is hard to understand and/or accept. Same works for reality without spiritual meaning.

This is the one of the resons why humanity (as value) does not worth much and you will have to give it away to solve the problem.
But if you need to give up on your humanity then this life is pointless.

 

[Samurai Drifter]

Yeah, I'm not spiritual or religious at all, though I do occasionally understand what Einstein was referring to whenever he mentioned God- that sense of amazement at the mysteries of the Universe.

 

[soleil]

I can live without religion, but I can't live without "spirituality"... or rather that certain religious feeling that one gets--a sense of the beauty and mystery of all that is. That's something that exists in me innately. To live without it, would mean extinguishing who I am.

I am not religious at all, but I am very spiritual. It is who I am to feel one with everything. I would feel dead otherwise.

 

[Lady_X]

^^ so basically enfp's are prone to be pretty spiritual huh...that's interesting...i know not all...but looks like a lot.

i think the idea that we are all very important pieces to some amazing incomprehensible puzzle is very important to the way we work...very important to be open and engaging with everyone because you never know what impact they are meant to have and everyone you meet has the potential to be someone you are meant to know...you know...that's how i see it anyway.

 

[placebo]

If you want one argument there is no problem.
Here is one of my older posts.

This works for any God not just Christian one.
If there is no afterlife there can be no meaning in this life, We can live it and like it but there is not real point.

But if there is an afterlife then you get in this kinds of problems. Which lead into meaningless existance.




This is the one of the resons why humanity (as value) does not worth much and you will have to give it away to solve the problem.
But if you need to give up on your humanity then this life is pointless.

To be honest I don't understand what you're argument is.
Are you first saying that, whether or not there is an afterlife, life is meaningless?

In which case, if you believe that, what point is there to this argument? Why don't we both just kill ourselves? It is strange that you first argue that if there is no afterlife there is thus no meaning in life. This seems to me your own subjective belief. I want you to prove this statement as true.

 

[placebo]

Wow! Albert said THAT?

He was smarter than I thought he was. An integrated human.

I think I'm in love. Maybe we'll meet in the Beyond.

(Which, of course, really isn't the beyond at all. )

He did say that I admire so much of what he said, especially on the topic of religious feeling.