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  1. #71
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    There are a lot of different definitions and ideas about what spirituality is.

    But if we define it as: of, pertaining to, or consisting of spirit; incorporeal (of, pertaining to, or characteristic of nonmaterial beings)

    We could all very well be living without spirituality right now. But since we can't prove that nonmaterial beings/things don't exist, we'll never know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I remember having an argument about the definition of spiritual. Some people insisted it was basically the equivalent to "having emotions." But I begged to differ, and I did, I did.
    You can defiine it however you want but I think that all versions don't have a future.

  2. #72
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    You can defiine it however you want but I think that all versions don't have a future.
    I think the idea of spirituality is going to keep becoming popular, and religion, less so.

    That seems to be the trend. The idea of spirituality is more individual-friendly and comfortable to the kind of person who might not find organized religion appealing but still believes in God or some sort of greater power.

  3. #73
    Senior Member Darjur's Avatar
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    I'm as spiritual and as religious as a rock already and that's how I've always been.

    About attacking people.
    Normally, no, I ignore them unless they start babbling too much.
    On the other hand of fact, if these are the people whose life depended on their "religion", I will attack them. I'm fully aware that this is immature, but I will try to destroy their beliefs with all of my might.

  4. #74
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    yeah...i haven't caught up so sorry if this is out of place...but i have to agree that the term spirituality can't be as vague as all that...it lessens it quite a lot to say it's about emotions...or love...it's more then that...everybody...i think?? has the ability to feel that but that does not mean everyone is spiritual...to be spiritual means to believe the spirit is eternal and that it has a spiritual home outside of the physical...so when you die you go there...the individual has their own idea about the details but i'm pretty sure that covers the basic idea.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    yeah...i haven't caught up so sorry if this is out of place...but i have to agree that the term spirituality can't be as vague as all that...it lessens it quite a lot to say it's about emotions...or love...it's more then that...everybody...i think?? has the ability to feel that but that does not mean everyone is spiritual...to be spiritual means to believe the spirit is eternal and that it has a spiritual home outside of the physical...so when you die you go there...the individual has their own idea about the details but i'm pretty sure that covers the basic idea.
    Yeah it does.

  6. #76
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I think the idea of spirituality is going to keep becoming popular, and religion, less so.

    That seems to be the trend. The idea of spirituality is more individual-friendly and comfortable to the kind of person who might not find organized religion appealing but still believes in God or some sort of greater power.
    But my point was that humanity itself has on future technological development is too strong that mankind can stay like this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darjur View Post
    I'm as spiritual and as religious as a rock already and that's how I've always been.

    About attacking people.
    Normally, no, I ignore them unless they start babbling too much.
    On the other hand of fact, if these are the people whose life depended on their "religion", I will attack them. I'm fully aware that this is immature, but I will try to destroy their beliefs with all of my might.
    I don't think it is immature at all. It is politically incorrect but I think that this position is quite valid actually.

  7. #77
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    But my point was that humanity itself has on future technological development is too strong that mankind can stay like this.
    I agree that technological development thrives best in a secular and scientific environment. But being into spirituality and having faith doesn't necessarily hinder one from making advancements, as history has shown. Being a religious fundamentalist might.

  8. #78
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    and my initial reaction would to be to say...a life without meaning and purpose is pointless so no thanks...
    lawlz. Can't have purpose or meaning in life without insisting that we know for certain the deep inner workings of the universe and its god, hm?

  9. #79
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    The point of this one is that typical do-good principle is not always good choice since it can lead to disaster. Skip the frist chapter, the chpaters about food production and crysis at far east are what matters here.


    (Un)sustainable development
    Spirituality is not a 'do-good principle' first of all, so I believe your latter point is moot to me.

    Spirituality does not directly make me wish to be morally righteousit is not a cause, nor is it the reason.

    For me, it is simply a feeling, separate from these other desires. It is a very strong feeling. It is not a belief in the afterlife, or paradise. It is not a whole set of emotions, neither do I believe that everyone has a sense of spirituality. I am pretty sure that not everyone does. But it is part of my reality.

    Neither would I say that spirituality gives me a purpose of life. But it gives me a sense that there should be a purpose in life.

    I will focus now on what you said near the beginning

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    The thing is that you and many other people in general are searching for a purpose. But on the other hand I have deteached myself enough that something crystallized in my head.

    Sinceever people are searching for answer(s) on this question but what if the quetion itself is wrong? What if we are searching simply because our brains alows us to do so? But what if we are just playing games with our brains and we don't even grasp the basic things about reality since we have a need for purppose.
    What I am saying is that things can get so impersonal and abstract that nihilism is not the right word for it.
    Hopefully I have read this right... I'll try to reword it as I interpreted it so you may point out if I made a mistake. So you suggest that people's search for a purpose in their life is simply like an automatic brain mechanism that we allow ourselves to 'follow' and that in fact it actually distracts us from what is real (reality) in the world.

    But let me argue against what I think I have understood you to say. Let's say I agree that searching for a purpose in life, or asking this question Why? is indeed a brain mechanism.

    What if I suggest that it makes no difference, and that this is not something that we can change?

    Let me compare it to another mechanism that we use commonly in life. Rationality.

    I argue that rationality itself is also an automatic brain mechanism. Why should we believe in it? Why should we be rational? Why should we be scientific?

    In short, the basis of rationality is our belief that the future will always follow from the past. But why should I believe that the future will be like the past? What if instead, I believed that the future will NOT follow from the past. This is possible for me to believe, just like it is possible for you to believe that we do not need to have meaning in our lives.

    Just as we would say that if we were not rational and if we believed instead that the future would NOT follow from the past, we would undermine the whole of rational thought, as well as science. We can think the most unseemly things, such as, even though every time someone jumps off a really tall building, they die, THE NEXT time someone does it, he or she wont. Just as we would say that if we believed the purpose of living was not to have a meaning in life, then we would not have any incentive to live, we would not have a necessity for life itselfthus, there is very reason for us to simply die (without a fight), or to kill ourselves.

    Can you prove that we should believe in rationality? Can I prove to you that we should find a meaning in life?

    Just like it is natural for us to be rational beings, it is natural for us to be creatures that search for a purpose in life.


    However, one does NOT have to be spiritual in order to find a purpose in life. That is only one aspect in life that not everyone may share.

    In my opinion, people have a huge misconception about what spirituality can be. This is because the religious have taken this word and messed it up by associating it with the woes of organized religion.

    Spirituality does not have to be dogmatic. Spirituality does not have to be defiant of reality. Spirituality, however, does have several definitions. This is the problem with the word, just like there is a problem with the word God. It is too personal for us to share the same meaning of the word. However I still believe myself to be a spiritual person.



    Let me take a quote from a lecture on some of Nietzsches ideas I was watching on Youtube. (link here - YouTube - Nietzsche: Nihilism, Death of God 3/4) I think it explains something I agree with quite well:


    [Nietzsche believed that] the more perspectives we adopt and the more evidence that we gain from different perspectives the closer we are to having a good perception of whatever it is we're studying. He will still not say 'the true thing' because he thinks there is no 'true' thing. It's always the thing as perceived from different perspectives. But nevertheless the more perspectives the better.

    But this means not just scientific perspectives. There are also ethical or moral perspectives, there are religious perspectives, and of course, there are aesthetic perspectives.

    ...

    One can contrast for example, the aesthetic perspective and the scientific perspective. There is an image that I sometimes use -- a friend of mine, who is a poet. We were sitting in a cafe once and there was a flower on the table, essentially, as he would put it, "stretching its petals towards the sunlight." And I thought, 'Wonderful.' But, I was a biologist. I knew about turgor and all these other things that would explain why the flower was doing what it did. And I thought, here's my scientific explanation, and here's his poetic explanation. Which one is better? And obviously it depends what we need them for, but in the context of having a cup of coffee, I was perfectly happy to say, the aesthetic was preferable.

    You have not detached yourself from searching for a purpose in life. You are trying to view it in a strictly scientific perspective. But is any perspective of it the sole truth?

    Perhaps you may understand why I reject your notion that the future will lack any spirituality.

  10. #80
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I think that you didn't get it but that is alright.

    Also I was talking about typical do-good spirituality but I did not say that you are like that, since you are distancing from it since the beginning.

    What I am saying in "Inhuman thoughts" thread is that emotions and rational thought don't have a chance to survive on the long run. Both of them will be disapear with time since chances that mankind will surrvive in definitively is 0.
    But how will it extinct is is debetable and there is plenty of things that can be said about this.

    The only thing that could change this odds is God(s) worshiped by religions.

    This is the reason why scientists are attacking the standard/traditional version of spiritulity so much.
    That is because modern spirituality is quite undefined and it actually has no real arguments.
    The entire thing in general comes down to a situation that people feel warm in their hearts and try to survive the best way they can. What is ok by me, but I think that this can't last far into the future.

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