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  1. #61
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by placebo View Post
    To be honest I don't understand what you're argument is.
    Are you first saying that, whether or not there is an afterlife, life is meaningless?

    In which case, if you believe that, what point is there to this argument? Why don't we both just kill ourselves? It is strange that you first argue that if there is no afterlife there is thus no meaning in life. This seems to me your own subjective belief. I want you to prove this statement as true.
    This not in waht I believe it is something that came out of my head and I could throw it in garbage without problem. It is just that I don't see the logical hole in it.



    Look at this this way.

    If you live this life you will grow old and die what means that there is no great point in it. To avoid this problem you will have an afterlife that is
    forever. But if it is forever then you will end up in problems like it is already said.

    To solve that problems you will need to give up on you human consciousness since it will be harmfull for you. But if you need to do that to be able to survive forever then your current position is somewhat pointless.


    Why not kill yourself?
    Because it is pointless to kill yourself in pointless life.
    What I am saying is that our position can't be much more apsurd then it is.

    If there is no any kind of God or afterlife everything that is human will be lost with time since it looks like that it is impossble for humans to survive in this reality forever.

    Why is that?
    It is a long story.

    But I can continue if needed.

  2. #62
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    This not in waht I believe it is something that came out of my head and I could throw it in garbage without problem. It is just that I don't see the logical hole in it.



    Look at this this way.

    If you live this life you will grow old and die what means that there is no great point in it. To avoid this problem you will have an afterlife that is
    forever. But if it is forever then you will end up in problems like it is already said.

    To solve that problems you will need to give up on you human consciousness since it will be harmfull for you. But if you need to do that to be able to survive forever then your current position is somewhat pointless.


    Why not kill yourself?
    Because it is pointless to kill yourself in pointless life.
    What I am saying is that our position can't be much more apsurd then it is.

    If there is no any kind of God or afterlife everything that is human will be lost with time since it looks like that it is impossble for humans to survive in this reality forever.

    Why is that?
    It is a long story.

    But I can continue if needed.
    There are no logical holes in it if you can precisely define what the 'meaning of life' is--but that I doubt you can do. This specific view that there is no meaning to life is nihilism I believe. There are other points of view you may argue. Thus, if you drop this point of view ('throw it in the garbage' as you say) that there is no meaning to life, can you continue to argue your point? (which, forgive me, I am still unclear about)

    If it is pointless to kill yourself in a pointless life, it is still equally pointless to continue living a pointless life.

    I think it's best if you continue your long story. I think I can perhaps understand what you mean by the absurdity of our position in life, but this sounds to me like an existential crisis. And so, how does this relate to spirituality or at least, my conception of spirituality?

  3. #63
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Everyone has it, one way another..people think of spirituality as strictly an act of being spiritual; going to church, believing in god, etc. but no. It's based on a deep love, whatever level..could be passion for sports, music, writing, teacher, or whatever. It's all about how you love and how you share with the people along the way. now you may argue with this, but in the end of it all, people don't believe in the same things..we don't all agree..we don't all like the same things..but what's universal..is a superior love, that we will always have for whatever reasons..
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  4. #64
    Senior Member Samurai Drifter's Avatar
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    I don't think there's anything spiritual or mystical about my enjoyment of activities, or my love for my girlfriend. They're both just the products of electro-chemical reactions in the brain, and love specifically is the result of an evolutionary mechanism to facilitate pair-bonding between mates, so they'll be more likely to stick together to raise their offspring.
    Hands in the air, it's a robbery.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    I could survive, but I'd be sad a lot.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  6. #66
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    This not in waht I believe it is something that came out of my head and I could throw it in garbage without problem. It is just that I don't see the logical hole in it.



    Look at this this way.

    If you live this life you will grow old and die what means that there is no great point in it. To avoid this problem you will have an afterlife that is
    forever. But if it is forever then you will end up in problems like it is already said.

    To solve that problems you will need to give up on you human consciousness since it will be harmfull for you. But if you need to do that to be able to survive forever then your current position is somewhat pointless.


    Why not kill yourself?
    Because it is pointless to kill yourself in pointless life.
    What I am saying is that our position can't be much more apsurd then it is.

    If there is no any kind of God or afterlife everything that is human will be lost with time since it looks like that it is impossble for humans to survive in this reality forever.

    Why is that?
    It is a long story.

    But I can continue if needed.

    Atheism does not have to equal nihilism. Value is not lost because it doesn't last forever. Value does not depend on infinite time.


    If you sat on a rock in space by yourself and lived forever: you would not find your life to be meaningful.


    What makes a FINITE LIFE meaningful is the same stuff people probably imagine themselves doing in an INFINITE AFTERLIFE. Just because those activities dont last forever here on earth, does not mean they lose all meaning. Just because I will never relive my greatest moment in sport, does not rid it of the value it has to me. It happened, period. It sits there like a pearl on a string of time. The point of life is to create these pearls of value and fill up whatever string you have. The very fact that we can arrange these atoms in a particular way (rather than perfect entropy), and add value to the universe, makes our lives meaningful. Live for loves, love of learning, relating, knowing, creating etc... just because it isn't forever, does not mean it lacks value.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Ishida's Avatar
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    Yes, I could survive. But my purpose would be to die, really. There is no meaning in anything, not in religion, science, life, death, or even truth.

    Everyone has it, one way another..people think of spirituality as strictly an act of being spiritual; going to church, believing in god, etc. but no. It's based on a deep love, whatever level..could be passion for sports, music, writing, teacher, or whatever. It's all about how you love and how you share with the people along the way. now you may argue with this, but in the end of it all, people don't believe in the same things..we don't all agree..we don't all like the same things..but what's universal..is a superior love, that we will always have for whatever reasons..
    Everyone has their gods, eh?
    What a waste of life..

  8. #68
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by placebo View Post
    There are no logical holes in it if you can precisely define what the 'meaning of life' is--but that I doubt you can do. This specific view that there is no meaning to life is nihilism I believe. There are other points of view you may argue. Thus, if you drop this point of view ('throw it in the garbage' as you say) that there is no meaning to life, can you continue to argue your point? (which, forgive me, I am still unclear about)

    If it is pointless to kill yourself in a pointless life, it is still equally pointless to continue living a pointless life.

    I think it's best if you continue your long story. I think I can perhaps understand what you mean by the absurdity of our position in life, but this sounds to me like an existential crisis. And so, how does this relate to spirituality or at least, my conception of spirituality?
    There is a catch, from my perspactive of course.
    The thing is that you and many other people in general are searching for a purpose. But on the other hand I have deteached myself enough that something crystallized in my head.

    Sinceever people are searching for answer(s) on this question but what if the quetion itself is wrong? What if we are searching simply because our brains alows us to do so? But what if we are just playing games with our brains and we don't even grasp the basic things about reality since we have a need for purppose.
    What I am saying is that things can get so impersonal and abstract that nihilism is not the right word for it.


    This was in short but I will give you much more information. I know that for this you will need about 30 minutes of reading for all of this but this is what I am saying from the start but explained in more detail.
    I have opened this thread exactaly because I think that all forms of spirituality will disapear with time.


    Inhuman thoughts


    The point of this one is that typical do-good principle is not always good choice since it can lead to disaster. Skip the frist chapter, the chpaters about food production and crysis at far east are what matters here.


    (Un)sustainable development

  9. #69
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    There are a lot of different definitions and ideas about what spirituality is.

    But if we define it as: of, pertaining to, or consisting of spirit; incorporeal (of, pertaining to, or characteristic of nonmaterial beings)

    We could all very well be living without spirituality right now. But since we can't prove that nonmaterial beings/things don't exist, we'll never know.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    There are a lot of different definitions and ideas about what spirituality is.

    But if we define it as: of, pertaining to, or consisting of spirit; incorporeal (of, pertaining to, or characteristic of nonmaterial beings)

    We could all very well be living without spirituality right now. But since we can't prove that nonmaterial beings/things don't exist, we'll never know.
    I remember having an argument about the definition of spiritual. Some people insisted it was basically the equivalent to "having emotions." But I begged to differ, and I did, I did.

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