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  1. #21
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    the thing is...is that's it's not merely a part of my personality it is what influences my every thought...every action.

    so...for you to understand...is to ask yourself what would be the same for you...and then inverse it...that's how empathy works.

    so...to me it's the same...you have every right to feel the way you do..as do i...our views are equal and no one should challenge them.

    you are essentially asking how we would feel without the thing that defines us...and that you can answer yourself.

    you know what i mean? not bein snarky...just so you're clear.

    Wrong.

    You think this is my belief but that is not true this is what I am thinking and would not have any problems giving all that away if it turns out wrong.
    I actually enjoy destroying my own ideas with critical thinking.
    So the only belif here is in critical thinking since so far it's proven to be useful. The whole point of T is that you don't have values.
    But it is impossble to be 100% T.


    That is exactly why I said that you have big problems in placing yourself in my boots since we operate in totally different way.

  2. #22
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    oh okay...i thought i was...my mistake i guess.

    i thought i was saying would you like to be without your "logical" view...and to have everything you feel to be true disproven...and to me...that would rob you of who you are and you would no longer be you...so...in my view no one would want that...but...i'm working from a different source and was projecting...again...hmm...

    so...i guess i'll just answer... no i wouldn't because to me it would be a death of who i am. and that just illustrates how very different we are i guess.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  3. #23
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    oh okay...i thought i was...my mistake i guess.

    i thought i was saying would you like to be without your "logical" view...and to have everything you feel to be true disproven...and to me...that would rob you of who you are and you would no longer be you...so...in my view no one would want that...but...i'm working from a different source and was projecting...again...hmm...

    so...i guess i'll just answer... no i wouldn't because to me it would be a death of who i am. and that just illustrates how very different we are i guess.
    I want to say that I can clearly sae your position all the time but I diagree with it.

    The thing is that my position is not politically correct since I am saying things that are hostile. But the other side(yours) usually thinks that I am doing it simply because I want to be mean toward somebody.
    What is not true and it isn't true because you are projecting your values/behaviour on me and that is why we have so much comunication as groups.

    I am future geologist and my job is to observe our environment. But that environment is showing that your belifs have some serious flaws and consequences could be fatal.

  4. #24
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    oh nice job explaining it..i thought i understood but disagreed with your position as well...

    but i am in no way threatened or offended by an opposing view and i'm sorry that you feel it's an unaccepted or impolite view and that you can't express it.

    i have no problems with people expressing their views unless it's done in a way that undermines or intends to debate someone else's.

    an exchange of ideas is fine by me...but don't try to disprove my beliefs with your logic....does that make sense?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #25
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    oh nice job explaining it..i thought i understood but disagreed with your position as well...

    but i am in no way threatened or offended by an opposing view and i'm sorry that you feel it's an unaccepted or impolite view and that you can't express it.
    To tell you the truth I think that if you know my position about this kind of things you would not have typed this.


    an exchange of ideas is fine by me...but don't try to disprove my beliefs with your logic....does that make sense?
    Form social stand point it does but from scientific perspective it doesn't.

  6. #26
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    interesting...well...keep em to yourself then...haha

    seriously...it's important to know the people with whom you are talking...you know...know the audience...or listener...i keep mine to myself around people who wouldn't appreciate it too...i know some religious people and they would be offended by my beliefs.

    and the atheists i'm friends with don't want to hear it either...so...my opinion is that you should only discuss it with someone who wants to hear it.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  7. #27
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    interesting...well...keep em to yourself then...haha

    seriously...it's important to know the people with whom you are talking...you know...know the audience...or listener...i keep mine to myself around people who wouldn't appreciate it too...i know some religious people and they would be offended by my beliefs.

    and the atheists i'm friends with don't want to hear it either...so...my opinion is that you should only discuss it with someone who wants to hear it.
    That sounds quite nice but I think that truth is truth.

    Most of people who do not want to hear it also don't want to think about this kinds of things. But ones that do already know what I am saying (mostly) and they agree since it is logical.

    But what I am trying to show is that we can talk or we can avoid it but things exist if we talk or if we don't talk about them.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    is all truth logical?? Is logical just another word for truth.. or can alomst anything be proven using the laws of logical thought?
    ... couldn't drag me away

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  9. #29
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    But if someone turns this against you and says


    That in certain way all the time you are just satisfing you animal needs by being spiritual and that by rejecting spirituality you are actually moving away form acting like an animal.


    1. You are actually avoiding the question of mortality since you have survival instinct as every other animal on the planet but you are smart enough to see where everything is going.

    2. You need to believe in good outcome since you can't stand that something could happen to you children (even natural death)

    3. Actually what really make you different for other life forms is ability to be logical why not using this skill in its full strenght?


    Would you be annoyed by that person?

    In what I am interested in is how much pain you can cause in other person with acting like this. Even if this post looks like I am trying to do exactly that.
    I doubt that anyone could cause me pain by choosing to believe or act upon those beliefs in a way different than I do. Many years of learning how to detach my feelings from how others act has paid off in acceptance of reality. I have a great deal of peace of mind at this stage in my life.

    If I act unlike an animal, in many ways I am trying to remove myself from this world in an unnatural way. I have innate needs and desires and want to learn to deal with them in constructive and fulfilling ways. I want to bring myself into accord with all that is life-enhancing and sustaining. I am not at all interested in trying to prove I am not in natural process. To not recognize or to refute my needs would be unhealthy for me. It's an integration of all those things that I pursue.

    Through many decades of living I have learned what's right for me and take comfort in knowing that I follow through with that.

    I don't believe in striving for "good" outcomes but rather with using the unfortunate ones to expand myself. I have had something "bad" happen to both of my children. And I lived through that with many questions and a lot of anger, but through those experiences I learned a lot about what it takes to live and live well. So did my children.

    I've also lived through a few ugly deaths of people I love. Every thing and action exists for me to learn and grow from. I don't believe in "bad" things. Grief is part of my natural process as a human and I am neither afraid of my feelings nor of my death which is also natural and inevitable.

    I maintain nobody knows for sure what will happen after corporeal death and have made the decision to allign myself with that. I believe that all unfolds as it should. Rather than helplessness and frustration, that acceptance has given me peace.

    This philosophy has brought me to a place of satisfied living and I think that is the best any of us can hope for.

    I wont accept your denial of not trying to annoy people. Unfortunate habit of yours, I think. It is your close-mindedness, singular focus and stubborn persistance which I find a poor choice.

    There were some other things I questioned about your approach but have realized that part of it is a language barrier and probably some of the personal issues which seem obvious to me but are of no concern to you. So - none of my business! I send my annoyance out to its fate. Hee!

    You seem to have found here a fairly workable, though awkward, way of connecting with others. Good for that.

    I've fairly well exhausted my brain with all this self-explanation (I also experience it in an uncomfortable way of being some self-absorbed!) and don't think you'll get much more of my time unless there's something useful for me there.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  10. #30
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I think I would certainly be capable of surviving many things thrown my way. Not having spirituality would be the least of my worries on the survival scale. If I did not have it, there would be nothing to miss or take comfort in.. so I don't think it'd effect me too much, although it may heavily effect the actions I make and the way I conduct myself.
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