User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 42

  1. #1
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    2,967

    Default A Near-Death Experience Question

    Recently the Godmother of my daughter "died" on the operating table. Both her electrocardiogram and her electroencephalogram flat-lined. I don't know how long she was in this condition.

    But they revived her and the nurses were curious about what she had experienced while she was "dead." They said occasionally they have this experience with a patient and ask them.

    What she described was the usual story of the light, tunnel, beautiful music, an intense sense of well-being, friendly people greeting her and a reluctance to return.

    They nodded, familiar with the tale.

    Then, she said, she went on to describe which of the hospital staff was where in the room and what they were each doing. She said that she was watching them from the ceiling. And she asked where a particular cart that had been brought into the room during resuscitation was. This surprised them as it had been removed before she had regained consciousness. She also was able to repeat some of the conversation made while she was flat-lined.

    I have very little familiarity with NDEs but it is my understanding that when your brain and heart are flat-lined you are, indeed, dead.

    I've read some scientific explanations for the lights, music. It is suggested that this is the brain's swan song as it dies and the cells flicker out. That makes sense to me.

    But this other thing - the numerous cases piling up and documented by hospital staff, scientific minds, of people being able to report what went on while they were clinically dead has me puzzled. How can that be explained scientifically?

    Are there any here of those of you who have stated your belief that, once you are clinically dead you no longer exist, able to explain this phenomenom in a scientific manner?

    Certainly not all of the multitude of documented cases can be hoaxes.

    A further question would be that if you no longer exist, once clinically dead, how are they able to call "you" back to life? You no longer exist!

    Anyone want to give a stab at helping me to understand your line of thinking regarding this?
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    681

    Default

    She was still experiencing life as we understand it: processing our surroundings through the senses. When you truly "die" you no longer sense anything.

    Death as I understand it is the "point of no return", simply put: She returned, so she was never actually dead in the first place.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    2,967

    Default

    Well, my question is, that a flat lined brain indicates that absolutely nothing is happening in the brain. So how then can one use their senses?
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Well, my question is, that a flat lined brain indicates that absolutely nothing is happening in the brain. So how then can one use their senses?
    The heart was flatlined, the brain wasn't dead yet, or you wouldn't have had a conversation with her.

    oh, wait, i didn't see that the EEG was flat. Oh well, I assume there's a rational explanation.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    2,967

    Default

    A brain dies, Jack, within seconds of flat-lining. This is what I'm curious about.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    A brain dies, Jack, within seconds of flat-lining. This is what I'm curious about.
    Are you talking about the EEG showing no brain function, or the heart stopping?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    2,967

    Default

    If you'll refer to the original post you'll see that I said both were flat-lined.

    But I don't care to discuss this one case.

    I'm referring, as I said, to the numerous documented cases which one can google.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

  9. #9
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    2,967

    Default

    I just put it on my favorites and will read it when I've got more time.

    I imagine I'll have questions.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  10. #10
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    492

    Default

    I've found this topic interesting, but I haven't read up on it much in years. A lot of what you end up reading [Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife] only tells you about the same typical OBE, tunnel like experience, and spiritual change stories, and a lot of it is associated with the paranormal and the concept of afterlife, etc. which you learn to take with a grain of salt.

    Neuroscientists will probably eventually be able to explain OBEs and NDEs and whether or not there is any truth to the belief that consciousness survives death. So till then, here's a nice summary of possibilities from the skeptical side near-death experiences (NDEs) lol?

    Moody, on the other hand, is sure that NDEs are evidence of consciousness existing separately from the brain. He thinks that NDEs prove the existence of life after death. Skeptics, on the other hand, believe that NDEs can be explained by neurochemistry and are the result of brain states that occur due to a dying, demented, extremely stressed, or drugged brain. For example, neural noise and retino-cortical mapping explain the common experience of passage down a tunnel from darkness into a bright light. According to Susan Blackmore, vision researcher Dr. Tomasz S. Troscianko of the University of Bristol speculated:

    If you started with very little neural noise and it gradually increased, the effect would be of a light at the centre getting larger and larger and hence closer and closer....the tunnel would appear to move as the noise levels increased and the central light got larger and larger....If the whole cortex became so noisy that all the cells were firing fast, the whole area would appear light. (Blackmore 1993: 85)

    Blackmore attributes the feelings of extreme peacefulness of the NDE to the release of endorphins in response to the extreme stress of the situation. The buzzing or ringing sound is attributed to cerebral anoxia and consequent effects upon the connections between brain cells (op. cit., 64).

Similar Threads

  1. Have you ever had a near death experience?
    By prplchknz in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 71
    Last Post: 04-27-2014, 06:35 AM
  2. Near Death Experiences
    By Lily flower in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 12-12-2011, 05:23 AM
  3. Near-death experiences
    By Sanctus Iacobus in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-25-2011, 04:40 PM
  4. Near-Death Experiences (NDEs)
    By NewEra in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-25-2009, 09:14 AM
  5. Near-Death Experiences
    By SuperServal in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-13-2007, 11:05 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO