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  1. #31
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    To me that is thinking inside that box of having to understand through our human mind and doesn't work.

    I'm not sure if accounts of NDE talk about the state of the person experiencing it. What they generally describe is what they are seeing happening in the corporeal life and are not part of it anymore. They talk about feeling reluctantly called back to something they have left. Reluctantly.

    Do you believe in the Universe? In Infinity? If your mind can actually wrap around something which we can't experience in corporeal life - I call that faith - then I suppose you can believe that you understand what life after death is/is not like.

    See what I'm saying? Those concepts are outside the realm of measurement and experience and yet we posit them with our inadequate human brains. And, I daresay, some sense of fear. No wonder we'd like to think that we aren't energy which could exist forever!

    Incidently, I am not making a case for life after death. I can't do that. No one can.

    What I'm saying is that not all can be knowable.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  2. #32
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    Well no one can make a case for it out of their intellectual capacity but out of their spirit where faith lies they most certainly can. It is when we try to cross two realms that things get mixed up. We ofetn try to intelectually explain feelings and it is impossible because feeling are not rational and it is the same with things of the spirit realm that lie outside this thing we call reality we cannot use the things we have developed here to cope with this realm to analyse and make a case for or against another our skills just aren't that cross curricula I'm afraid
    ... couldn't drag me away

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  3. #33
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Last night I saw a program on tv about people with special abilities, among which was a man who was born without eyes who is an artist. He paints pictures of recognizable things -- windmills, flowers, sky, trees. When they looked at his brain while he was painting, the visual parts were lit up like a Christmas tree. They tested him until he was literally sick of it, and every time, he passed, he could draw what he was asked to draw.

    It makes me thing that our ideas about how our bodies interrelate with the world around us are still pretty primitive and mechanistic.

  4. #34
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    There is one thing that I don't understand about spiritual people.

    Spiritual people are always very interested in talk about life after death.

    But I what I fail to understand is what would be the purppose of this life.


    Why is it so important that this story is true?

  5. #35
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    What is the purpose of this one if you are not spiritual?
    ... couldn't drag me away

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    WildHorses: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    Željko Ražnatovic: to carry your genealogical code??

  6. #36
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    What is the purpose of this one if you are not spiritual?
    I will not going to lie to you I really think that this life is pointless.

    If you want me to I can post a lot about this and about what is really my position on this topic.
    In some other thread of course.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    Well then for a person such as yourself why does the next life need a purpose if you feel this one doesn't either... I am guessing we have very different ideas on this topic but i don't mind reading your views on the subject if you wish to post them to me...
    ... couldn't drag me away

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    Željko Ražnatovic: do you want heir's?
    WildHorses: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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  8. #38
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wild horses View Post
    Well then for a person such as yourself why does the next life need a purpose if you feel this one doesn't either... I am guessing we have very different ideas on this topic but i don't mind reading your views on the subject if you wish to post them to me...
    That would be hijack of the thread.

    But in short my argument comes to that purpose is human need but there is no such a thing as purpose in this reality. That is just a way how humans see it and they are projecting their ideas and feelings upon the reality but that doen not mean that they are hitting the target.

    You will just have to believe me that when you get rid of the need for purpose there is a whole new world out there.
    But this in a way means the destruction of feeling.

    I will open a thread about this kinds of things so we can talk there.

  9. #39
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post

    But this in a way means the destruction of feeling.

    I will open a thread about this kinds of things so we can talk there.

    And in that thread, I would like to know why realizing that there is no purpose might destroy feeling? Elaborate.

  10. #40
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    To me that is thinking inside that box of having to understand through our human mind and doesn't work.



    Do you believe in the Universe? In Infinity? If your mind can actually wrap around something which we can't experience in corporeal life - I call that faith - then I suppose you can believe that you understand what life after death is/is not like.

    See what I'm saying? Those concepts are outside the realm of measurement and experience and yet we posit them with our inadequate human brains. And, I daresay, some sense of fear. No wonder we'd like to think that we aren't energy which could exist forever!

    Incidently, I am not making a case for life after death. I can't do that. No one can.

    What I'm saying is that not all can be knowable.
    All that we regard as existence is within the constraints of time, space, and matter.

    If something lacked time, all events would happen simultaneously, the human mind could not register this as existence. Therefore if we had such an experience, we simply would not be able to experience it.

    If an event lacked space, it literally would be nothing, therefore also by definition would be regarded as unimaginable. If an event lacked matter, it would also be unimaginable as all things within our imagination were inspired by what was once in the senses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    To me that is thinking inside that box of having to understand through our human mind and doesn't work..
    This is the only kind of thinking possible and the only kind of thinking that can work by definition.



    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    See what I'm saying? Those concepts are outside the realm of measurement and experience and yet we posit them with our inadequate human brains...
    Because we were able to talk about such experiences, it follows that they were indeed within our "realm of measurement'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Do you believe in the Universe?...
    The definition of the Universe is all that exists. I believe in that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    In Infinity?
    ?...
    Infinity by definition is an entity without a limit. This does not exist in the world that we can experience. Infinity however does exist. It is the substratum or the underlying layer of our known world. The existence of infinity is what justifies the existence of our known world. Because we know that infinity is limitlessness, finitude is the opposite of limitlessness, or property of having a limit. If our universe was infinite, it would be one thing without a beginning or an end. No such thing with an exception of space (which is indeed the substratum to all other entities of the finite universe) could be infinite, as all things that we know of have a limitation. In fact, if we could prove that the universe contains at least two distinct entities, it follows that our universe is finite, or it is not the case that the universe consists of one boundless, homogeneous substance.

    If we were to posit that the finite universe was created by another finite being, we would be forced to ask what the cause of that finite entity that creating the universe was. If we were to say another finite, entity, would proceed ad infinitum seeking the first cause. What if the first cause was self-created, as theists claim that God was self-created. This contradicts the principle that nothing can come from nothing. Therefore it is untenable.

    Hence, the only way we can provide an intelligible understanding of the first cause of the universe is by claiming that it was infinite. That way the original entity is boundless and needs not creator, it did not come from nothing because it has always existed. Our known finite world is merely how we tend to perceive the infinite realm.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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