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  1. #21
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Although sadly this concept is being neglected terribly, so now you have overgrown children walking around untill their mid-40s.
    Is this the type of development you believe the contemporized Bibles will help to protect?

    If so, how?

  2. #22
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Would you care to provide some examples of such as I originally asked?

    In theory at least, this is appropriate for first-graders, but not young adults. There's a point in life when one must proceed from the kiddy Bible to the real deal. It's called growing up.

    Although sadly this concept is being neglected terribly, so now you have overgrown children walking around untill their mid-40s.
    I didn't have any specific examples in mind, but the books here seem to be the kind I was talking about.

    What's the main difference between these kid's bibles and this new eco-friendly bible that makes the latter something bad?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Is this the type of development you believe the contemporized Bibles will help to protect?

    If so, how?
    I'll repost the excerpts in the OP:
    Two new Bibles targeting a young, hip even secular audience are hitting bookstores. One is a slick, illustrated version of the New Testament; the other is an environmentally friendly edition that takes advantage of the popularity of the green movement.
    If you didn't know this was a Bible you might think The Book was a "goth" magazine, or perhaps something you'd find in a doctor's office. The front cover is a close-up of a translucent green eye, caked with black makeup and staring eerily from the page. On the back is a photo of a faceless figure wearing a black hooded sweat shirt.
    They're basically trying to transform the Bible into your everyday Teen magazine. This is especially true in regards to putting pictures of Angelina Jolie, Bono and John Lennon alongside Nelson Mandela, Mother Teresa and Martin Luther King, Jr.(perhaps it should be mentioned that none of these people are actaully Biblical figures) further shows how trivalizing this is of Holy Scriptures.

    Within this context it's simply impossible to comprehend the profoundity of scriptures.

    And I don't buy the whole Machiavellian argument of "well at least it gets people reading the Bible", which displays a rather un-Christian lack of integrity.

    Quite a contrast to the attitude shown by Bl. Bishop Paul P. Gojdich, who suffered martyrdom at the hands of the Communists:

    "I am certain that at the end truth will triumph over lies, and love will overcome hatred. I do not hate my enemies. I would like to bring them closer to Christ, of course not by force or deceit but by love and truth."

    A true Christian sense of integrity would also show greater aesthetic appreciation as to presenting the word of God. We certainly see this in the majestic artworks that Medieval monks displayed in their hand-crafted Bibles.

    Even the Bible I inherited from my grandmother contains a gallery of Renaisance and Baroque paintings displaying scenes from the New Testament.

    Of course truely devout art is not confined to the past. You can look at the artwork displayed here, which were produced only 10 years ago:
    Art for the Catholic Restoration

    I cannot in good conscience give my support to such an endeavor as this. If I did, then I cannot call myself a good Christian.

  4. #24
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post

    They're basically trying to transform the Bible into your everyday Teen magazine. This is especially true in regards to putting pictures of Angelina Jolie, Bono and John Lennon alongside Nelson Mandela, Mother Teresa and Martin Luther King, Jr.(perhaps it should be mentioned that none of these people are actaully Biblical figures) further shows how trivalizing this is of Holy Scriptures.
    You make a good point that to compare the essential spiritual character/social virtues of contemporary celebrities against important socio-spiritual cornerstones would make for a cheapening of the advancements of each figurehead.

    Yet, I don't think this a fair encapsulation of the author's intent. To perpetuate Christian philosophy to an audience unfamiliar with the essential guideposts offered therein likely is best accomplished with the assistance of a contemporary "hook" -- a well-known face as a bartering instrument to clarify the value of having an interest in Christianity. The value of this strategy is (presumably) self-evident towards servicing the bottom line of the Christian movement.

    I think it's (somewhat) clear that the author is working to familiarize otherwise-"unhip" theological concepts to new/different demographics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    And I don't buy the whole Machiavellian argument of "well at least it gets people reading the Bible", which displays a rather un-Christian lack of integrity.
    This is a strange approach to take, when discussing the teachings of Christ. Not everyone shares the corpus of your positive conclusions on Catholicism. As such, divergent systems of personal belief undoubtedly corkscrew otherwise-valuable insight away from the essential teachings of Christ.

    Elitism is wanton insecurity against change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Quite a contrast to the attitude shown by Bl. Bishop Paul P. Gojdich, who suffered martyrdom at the hands of the Communists:

    "I am certain that at the end truth will triumph over lies, and love will overcome hatred. I do not hate my enemies. I would like to bring them closer to Christ, of course not by force or deceit but by love and truth."
    I don't see how this relates, other than working to (inappropriately) add an alarmist approach to a well-meaning translation of Biblical code.

    We aren't dealing with Communism. Nor are we discussing the Basilian order.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    A true Christian sense of integrity would also show greater aesthetic appreciation as to presenting the word of God. We certainly see this in the majestic artworks that Medieval monks displayed in their hand-crafted Bibles.

    Even the Bible I inherited from my grandmother contains a gallery of Renaisance and Baroque paintings displaying scenes from the New Testament.
    Precisely.

    Paintings convened as an attempt to increase awareness on the beauty found within scripture.

    Although the elegance in media has certainly changed, the desire to facilitate awareness has remained uncannily similar.


    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Of course truely devout art is not confined to the past. You can look at the artwork displayed here, which were produced only 10 years ago:
    Art for the Catholic Restoration
    Beautiful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I cannot in good conscience give my support to such an endeavor as this. If I did, then I cannot call myself a good Christian.
    Then I would advise you to remain firm in your beliefs.

    Tolerance has often been described as one of the purest examples of compassionate wisdom.

  5. #25
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    I think it's weird though... They try to make it "more relevant"... How does one go about doing something that is bullshit into something better without changing the entire concept?

    (Note: sorry! I just couldn't help myself! )

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  6. #26
    Senior Member Hirsch63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    I find the issue entirely uncontroversial.

    Religion and politics are intermingled entities. Welcome to human culture.

    Trying to broaden one's audience by pursuing unfertilized avenues should be an exciting opportunity for conversion, not an excuse to draw petty lines of personal division.
    I agree 100%. Here is another opportunity to widen the conversation and therefore the understanding of this text. You are right on target Night. Those curious enough to engage will seek further, into other more conventional texts and commentaries and their own gifts will take their understanding as far as it will go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    WTF is this???

    Back in the day these wretched pieces of shit would've been used more properly as fuel for burning heretics!
    Fear and immaturity are right here, plainly to be read. Is this the attitude of a follower of Christ, or a slave to church dogma? I'm sure it is if we take the offensive, abominal and criminal historical actions of the church into account. Souls uncounted were tortured and destroyed in the name of the church to "protect" the integrity of it's position. This is old, available and well-understood history motivated by the basest of human interests with no real reference to divine law. Burn heretics? are you serious? Do you think what happened long ago was forgotten; that writing a statement as patently offensive as this could be excused by your disgust for these two publications? This is simply out of line.

    Would I buy either of these books? Probably not. I can find passages myself in conventional sources to support our responsibility to creation...and I am sure others could find just as many passages supporting the notion of creation as essentially ours to dispense with as we see fit without reference to stewardship or husbandry. The idea of "slicking up" a version of the New Testament to draw in an audience who might otherwise ignore it should offend only those who stand to lose something from that possibility and have no faith that the word can stand up to any presentation. There should therefore be no representation of the Word in any other form than that available to a select few, or approved by them? Sounds very familiar. Of course when efforts were first made to provide legible translations to the laity centuries ago the church took persistent steps to capture, torture and execute those trying to expand the understanding of the Word. It is disappointing to see that this mindset survives especially in one who has gifts enough to amend many of the hurts perpetrated by the church and expand a truly "universal" understanding.

    The uniform of faith is that of the healer, the open, helpful hand and guide; not that of the judge, soldier or executioner as it has all too often been understood to be by insitutions hoarding and exercising it's inherent power, the ultimate, pathetic sorrowful irony of our history.

    You wish to burn books? Or better yet those books along with those who might read them and come to a different conclusion than you? I cannot with propriety dispense my full response to your writing on this forum. In short it could best be expressed by the phrase "grow up".
    Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings...Steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you a king

  7. #27
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    As is usually the case, Hirsch63's insight far exceeds my own.

    Of particular strength is this statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hirsch63 View Post
    The uniform of faith is that of the healer, the open, helpful hand and guide; not that of the judge, soldier or executioner as it has all too often been understood to be by insitutions hoarding and exercising it's inherent power, the ultimate, pathetic sorrowful irony of our history.

  8. #28
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hirsch63 View Post
    I agree 100%. Here is another opportunity to widen the conversation and therefore the understanding of this text. You are right on target Night. Those curious enough to engage will seek further, into other more conventional texts and commentaries and their own gifts will take their understanding as far as it will go.
    I find myself strongly against the OP and see it from the opposite side of this concern.

    The absolute last thing the green movement needs is religion. Hell, the green movement is already close enough to religion to negate the realistic concerns (both economic and scientific). I don't particularly care about the impact on religion, but I really don't like seeing it merging with movements that should clearly be in the realm of empirical science.

  9. #29
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    I agree, ptgatsby.

    One of the most frustrating campaigns to observe has been the peculiar insistence of Evangelicals towards the symmetrical inclusion of Creationism alongside Evolution -- as a science.

    If nothing else, the movement showcases a basic lack of understanding on the material differences between a falsifiable platform and faith-based personal reckoning. I guess I'd be more sympathetic to the fundamentalist cause if Theology wasn't an available elective within the standard operational rubric of most academic curriculums.

    Actually, scratch that -- the persistence of the Creationism model is another needle in the pincushion of socially-fashionable/politically-marketable ignorance. Serves as a powerful reminder on the dire necessity for distinction between belief and empiricism.

  10. #30
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I find myself strongly against the OP and see it from the opposite side of this concern.

    The absolute last thing the green movement needs is religion. Hell, the green movement is already close enough to religion to negate the realistic concerns (both economic and scientific). I don't particularly care about the impact on religion, but I really don't like seeing it merging with movements that should clearly be in the realm of empirical science.

    This is an interesting point. I've long questioned the whole green movement and the political push towards it is so strong, it leaves me extremely suspicious. It truly is becoming a religious movement. It has its heretics, its leaders, its followers, its misinformation and tendency to combat any skepticism or criticism with vicious attacks that don't combat the criticism but the one offering the different point of view.

    If anything, these people don't seem to want to destroy the existing bible: they're not saying theirs is correct or right, just putting a spin on existing scripture to appeal to a different audience or highlight certain things they think is important and others may feel that way as well.



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