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  1. #31
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Put words in my mouth, Rascal. No mention of me being "troubled" by a life without "standard great problems."

    I think it's delusional, though. Perpetual satisfied detachment? Nope. Doesn't fly.

    I agree that the human race seems to be rushing headlong into chaos. But you can't convince me that turning my back and saying, "I'm fine." is a healthy approach for me.

    By the way, that stance wouldn't be called antisocial, necessarily. Sounds more like Schizoid Personality Disorder. Antisocial people tend to prey on others and so can be quite attached to what's going on and how to benefit from it.

    There's some incongruity in your nickname.
    That is because my name is a joke and I am socialy skilled enough to know that "Schizoid one" would sound stupid. On the other hand as far as I know antisocial people are not interested in the well being of public.
    It is just that there is intelectual veil over it in my case.

    I am not interested because I have something against people it is just that I think that today this is fighting of lost cause.
    Which is because I think that survival is impossble outcome and I fail to see the tragedy if we extinct in a certain way. Since life(in both meanings) can go on without us. Actually I think that it will have to.

  2. #32
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Your thread title contradicts itself, how can humans be inhuman, when we belong to the animalia kingdom in the first place?, the word human was a term arrogantly coined to designate the sub-species with the most developed coginative abilities>Homo sapiens as a sort of Diverging entity. Thus you cannot be inhuman, because humans are animals.

    You have percieved the great grim reality or as you refered to it "the big picture", of our highly cyclical world, and in the end pondered if there is really meaning with life when we are but specks in a great galaxy construct whose existence is meaningless, whose existence is at a means to come to an end. The despair of realizing how it is all meaningless in the end, our deeds, thoughts, legacy will only endure for 1 minute in the endless spectrum. This has made you give up effort. Many people have stumbled upon this, the real problem is learning how to deal with truth of how meaningless everything is and still wanting to contribute.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  3. #33
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Introverted-esfp View Post
    Your thread title contradicts itself, how can humans be inhuman, when we belong to the animalia kingdom in the first place?, the word human was a term arrogantly coined to designate the sub-species with the most developed coginative abilities>Homo sapiens as a sort of Diverging entity. Thus you cannot be inhuman, because humans are animals.

    You have percieved the great grim reality or as you refered to it "the big picture", of our highly cyclical world, and in the end pondered if there is really meaning with life when we are but specks in a great galaxy construct whose existence is meaningless, whose existence is at a means to come to an end. The despair of realizing how it is all meaningless in the end, our deeds, thoughts, legacy will only endure for 1 minute in the endless spectrum. This has made you give up effort. Many people have stumbled upon this, the real problem is learning how to deal with truth of how meaningless everything is and still wanting to contribute.

    I see that you have been thinking about this to some degree. But I think that you have miss some points of the story.


    The point is that there is no "big grim picture". People get depressed about this without problem. But that is because they think/feel about it in wrong way. They are projecting their own standard on something, in a directon where those standards can't give any meaningful result.
    It is like the case that you want to start a car with a hammer, while you need very sophisticated tool (key). This is why there is word inhuman all over the place, since this approach gives up from many things that people consider to be the main parts of their personality.

  4. #34
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I don't claim to be inhuman but I am probably one step closer to it then others.
    Nah. Just having a detached outlook doesn't make you less human. You may have a somewhat unique (but still not that unique) viewpoint, but that is all. I've had the same viewpoints at times too. In fact, I always have the viewpoint I think you have -- I just suppress it when I'm trying to connect with others.

    One thing to realize is that it's just ONE viewpoint, from ONE set of assumptions. There are plenty of other viewpoints that are just as cohesive and that don't contradict the detached one. You can switch between them depending on their relevance to the kind of interaction you want to have.

    Do you see standard human way of doing things as a appropriate to this reality?
    Hell no. Most people don't think about WHY they're doing what they're doing. It seems to me like everyone should try to see as big of a picture as they can so that they can accurately decide which aspects of reality to focus on. The less you question, the less of a choice you have.

    Do you think that those ways are worth saving at all cost or do you think that they are expendable?
    I think everyone needs to be pushed a little bit in uncomfortable philosophical directions...although it may be uncomfortable, or have short term consequences, it helps people get context for their life in a longer-term way.

    I figure...think about the concept of "midlife crisis". It's basically people having an existential break when they're 40 because they've never really stopped to think about what they've been doing in life. People might as well be pushed in this direction now so that they have a better idea of what they're doing with life -- no point in waiting until you're 40 and potentially wasting the time in between.



    I'm just guessing here, but your mentality makes me think of a certain point in my life (about 2 years ago). I was taking hallucinogens all the time, and had this philosophical perspective of -- well, there's no free will, everyone just buys into these social conventions and follows these ridiculous paths, and for what end? There's no point to all this shit anyway. How could people be so blind? So I rejected lots of reality -- I stopped going to my classes, wasn't working, stopped worrying about spending too much money -- I just sat in my room all day and did drugs, because...well...why the fuck not, right? There's no point anyway...

    And while it's logically true...that there is no physical free will, that people are just silly animals that think of themselves as somehow "above" animalistic urges, it kind of doesn't matter that it's true. What's the point? Well, there is no "objective" point. Which means, well, we're all free to do whatever the fuck we want. And what do I want? I want to maximize my subjective sense of well-being. So I turned reality into a game -- it's all about picking the best strategy for maximizing my subjective-well-being. And honestly, the best strategy, most of the time, is to accept the limitations of human conventions, to play within those conventions. You can change people's minds around you a bit, you can play with the conventions a bit. But mostly, you have to take them as the rules of the game. Because they are. We can't help that we live like this. We can always run away and live in the woods, I guess, but I figure, that's probably a worse strategic move for happiness-maximization.

    Plus, there are other quite interesting people in this reality. We should flock to them and hear what they have to say. Just being around other "smart" people makes me much more likely to be happy.

    But yeah, we basically have to play within the rules or run away and live in the woods or break a law and live in jail. Those are just the choices we have. It sucks, but it's true.

    And the "no-free-will" perspective is true too, at the exact same time.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Appreciated your post, Evan. Sounds like you've accomplished some good insights on what will work for you.

    Again, the truth of a satisfying life lies in the balance. Neither completely embracing nor running from social problems or from social satisfaction.

    It's a youthful perspective that comes with the initial inklings of disillusionment. The primitive response. Fight or flight. Then eventually we need to make a decision to live well and work towards those things which bring meaning to our life or we give up and check out early.

    Third option? Trying to live in that "inhuman zone" and struggling along alone until we finally fizzle out.

    It's part of the process of living and it's possible that many of us have to go to both extremes before we discover that life is best lived in balance. And once we've experienced the crazy lack of balance at both ends we are finally able to see where that middle ground lies.

    And you are correct, antisocial one, that there is not much which is fun or funny in a schizoid lifestyle. But many times it's a choice a person is able to make. To change in order to be fully alive.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  6. #36
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    A final thought.

    You're not stange or outside the realm of human experience. Nor are you exceptional. You're just discouraged and tired of being discouraged.

    The next step is action. . .
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  7. #37
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I value the efort of everybody in the thread so far. But I see that it is not going as it is ment to be. Everybody took this as cry for help but this wasn't ment to be that way. On plenty places in the OP I have said that this is not about me and I have also said that all of that was just to understand the level of detachment and to detach reader from everyday life.
    Plus to expain my position better.


    I didn't define topic completly because on many places I have said "this can be descused to a greater degree later" and another reason is that a lot can be said about this or similar topics.



    SInce things turned out this way I will clearly define the topic.


    This is about something that is surely the greatest story of our time and I think that it deserves a thread.


    It is about replacing natural with artificial.



    For the sake of an argument let's say that some things are natural and some things are artificial. While everything is actually natural.



    Science was created/invented to help humanity deal with the environment and help them survive in that same environment. The rate of progress in the last century quite big, but in the last 20 years there are sings that science at the current direction leads into something that leads into something that can be described as uncharted terrtory. In the last 20 years mechines made a huge jump in their ability to percive the world and to make much accurete calculations then human can. Personally I am into hard science and it looks to me that almost all job is done my a machines. Since all the time you are measuring something that you can't see, hear, touch ...... you even can't fully understand it since common sense says that that this is impossible.
    I am taking about atoms here. Also this atoms tend to show that our world is incredebly old. The number is actually to big to be understand.
    Since machines do all the "dirty work" scientist job is to turn them on and analyse data that comes out. In some cases scientist are even too dumb/limited to understand what data actually says.


    This is actually just one simple example but machines are vital part of every aspect of our society and if you remove them a lot of people will die.



    In the last couple of years there are machines that are no longer under a direct controle of humans and some of them are even armed.

    Here is one video about it. It starts in a more innocent way and then stars to show where we actually are.


    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGxDVIwEWH8"]Military robots[/YOUTUBE]




    Form this video it is more or less clear where we are and even more where we are going. In the next few decades this concepts will probably gain even more strenght.
    Since country that starts to develope this kind of military could have huge advantage over the more undeveloped country. Since this alows you kill your enemy without even getting into the battle. Not to menation how much you save on supply lines since robots don't need so many things as soldiers do.
    So instead of producing supplies you can produce more robots.
    Plus they don't need to sleep or rest, they don't celebrete holidays and they are not moody or stressed and they don't want to be paid.
    In a case that your invasion fails and the country that is a victim is damadged you have actually won. Not to mention that you can lunch another invasion in 3 weeks and that some of those things can "survive" a bullet or two.



    For this entire story the equaly important is the part in political section called " (Un)sustainabe development". I have separated those two to avoid OP that is too big. But this is the part same story and I will soon start to post there.

    Where is the connection?

    Connection is that this world we are living in is not stable and it will start to change itself. The huge population that live in undeveloped world will start to die. Which is because so many reason that there is no point to count them since the details are in the other thread.


    To me it looks that things will go this way.
    Developed world will have some major problems. To solve many of them or to relieve some situations there will probably be a lot of scientific and technological research that will lead in a direction toward society where machines play even a bigger role.
    Many people in undeveloped world will die, but that will in a way destroy opposition to society based on principle "technology without limits".
    If I understand correctly many forum members are already adicted to internet and other wonders of technology. Since you are short on resources actually it will be in your interest that people are online more and more.


    I hope that others can now see why the thread is called "inhuman thoughts"
    It is about humans getting more and more inhuman while abilities of machines are growing.


    In a way my personality is also unnatural since it can't be created in natural environment. There is no way that I could be so distant or that I could get so abstract. I have spent much more times with machines then people.
    This is not a argumet, this is a comment.


    The thing is that humans are always on the same level but machinces are getting better and better every day. What means that it is inevitable that they will surpass us with enough time and without them there is no progress. Since human hands can't create something so sophisticated as machine can and humans need machinces to detect and analyse things that are out of reach for our senses. So even is we magicaly solve problems with environment we must progress or go back were we once were.

    Here is a quote from OP.

    Even if someone manages to create laws against this kind of activity there is no assurance that someone canít do the research in secret and if you add thousands of years in the concept it is quite unlikely that this can be placed on hold forever.
    Maybe if we manage to create a global police state, were privacy doesnít exist which will last for the rest of the eternity, maybe then we will have a chance to stop it.
    Not to mention that this state would be based on the technology you are trying to stop at all costs. The only alternative is that there will be the end of civilization.
    Only way to make sure that someone or some generation doesn't push entire thing over the line is to retreat tech-level back few centuries and try to keep it there.
    But even that will be temporary solution. Not to menton that from cosmic perspective this is suicidal thinking.

    In a case that real AI is hard to create it is not impossible that Human brain will serve as a starting point.

    There is a lot of what can be said here so I will for now leave it at this.



    Now when other know about what I am talking about maybe I will get replies I am interested in.


    This thread is not a cry for help. It is actually an attack on plans and ideals of others forum members.

  8. #38
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Forgive me if I read this all wrong! ADD is a bitch... Are you afraid of the possible coming of the singularity?

    As I remember my thoughts during childhood, and with little thought that I recently put into it I quickly, and submissively realized that breakthroughs in Science and Technology have increased dramatically in the last 20 years, let alone the last century, and is continuing to speed up, I have often wondered if 20-25 years from now, we would be at a much higher level of dependency(200% increase?)for machines/technology/science. Although not perfected yet(politically/ethically/scientifically), human cloning, stem cell research, and robotics could very well be a major threat to natural human evolution, free thought, and overall emotional intelligence, which could be the results of "lazy thinking" and the unconsciously programmed, and adoptive anti-social tendencies.

    Can I imply that many people rely heavy on the enticing concept of immortality, which feeds the desire for a "meaningful significance" which opposes the undesirable, malignant thoughts stemmed from the undeniable, and inevitable understanding of our own realties? ... Or,... Is it just me?
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  9. #39
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    If I take word "singularity" as you do then I am not afraid if it, since it looks to me that this entire story can't end any other way then this way.
    Life (as phenomenon) has only two options one is to stay on Earth forever what is suicide or to accept this and spread itself across the universe in a hope that one day everything will make more sense.

    As I said before we can't even say that main purpose of this reality is life.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Journey's Avatar
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    Smile The Answer to Inhumanity

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Do you see standard human way of doing things as a appropriate to this reality?
    No, since God created this reality, it stands to reason that humans should do things according to His ways and Will appropriate to this reality as revealed by Him in these days by His Word which gives the good news about His Son, Jesus, the Christ, to the world.

    That good news is that Jesus died to secure reconciliation with the Father for our sins that is freely availiable to everyone who will turn from their wicked ways and to God's ways, accept Jesus' sacrifice for the price of peace with the Father and enter into a relationship with God, having Jesus as Lord of their life and receiving the Holy Spirit to be conformed to the image of Christ Jesus.

    In this way we begin to become fully human, image bearer's of God once again. This will be complete when Jesus comes again and we receive our glorified bodies and sin no more in Heaven forever living with Christ.


    Do you think that those ways are worth saving at all cost or do you think that they are expendable?
    Man's ways are expendable. God's ways and Will stand forever.
    "My Journey is my Destination."

    "Today Counts Forever." R.C. Sproul

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