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Thread: Faith vs Faithfulness

  1. #1
    Winter Rose Array Jennifer's Avatar
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    Default Faith vs Faithfulness

    From RealLivePreacher

    ...Christianity is an Eastern religion. The earliest Christians were Hebrews. Semites. People of the East. They did not know how to separate mind from body. They were holistic before holistic was cool.

    In our world we have separated mind from body to our great loss. Here a man may betray his wife and neglect his children, but say he loves them "down inside".

    Bullshit. There is no "down inside." Love is something you do, not something you feel.

    Likewise, we think having faith means being convinced God exists in the same way we are convinced a chair exists. People who cannot be completely convinced of God's existence think faith is impossible for them.

    Not so. People who doubt can have great faith because faith is something you do, not something you think. In fact, the greater your doubt the more heroic your faith.

    I learned that it doesn't matter in the least that I be convinced of God's existence. Whether or not God exists is none of my business, really. What do I know of existence? I don't even know how the VCR works.

    What does matter is whether or not I am faithful. I think faithful is a hell of a good word. It still has some of its original shine. It still calls us to action...
    Responses? Ideas?
    Hey Capa. We're only stardust.

    She was waiting, but she didn't know for what. She was aware only of her solitude, and of the penetrating cold, and of a greater weight in the region of her heart. ~ Albert Camus

    Movie Reviews: What Jenny Saw

  2. #2

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    What a great snippet, Jennifer.

    Love is something you do, not something you feel.
    Reminds me of another quote I relate to: Love is a verb, it requires action.

    This signature left intentionally blank.

    Really.

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    Strongly Ambivalent Array Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natrushka View Post
    Reminds me of another quote I relate to: Love is a verb, it requires action.
    (Massive Attack?)

    A reaction to the OP, though: what does it mean to "do" faith?

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    No, Fridayeyes from another forum I can't shouldn't do youtube from work.

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    Really.

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    Strongly Ambivalent Array Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natrushka View Post
    No, Fridayeyes from another forum I can't shouldn't do youtube from work.
    Do check it out sometime. It may be the strangest music video you ever see. And the lyrics are applicable: "Love, love, is a verb, love is a doing word..."

    The OP resonates with me, especially lately. I'm still left wondering what's the difference between thinking and doing when it comes to faith.

  6. #6

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    Bullshit. There is no "down inside." Love is something you do, not something you feel.
    Absolutely right. I operate on this principle - it does not exist unless it exists without the words. You are not your labels, you are the sum of your actions. You do not love if you do not show it. You do not have empathy unless you show it. You are not faithful unless you show it. You are nothing but your actions, and I will judge you upon those alone.

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    Winter Rose Array Jennifer's Avatar
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    I will post some more thoughts on it later. The link in the OP does go to the full text of the article I was quoting (plus the other 3 parts), so you could read that in context if that would help.

    RLP definitely advocates less theology and more "getting your hands dirty" by being part of people's lives -- joys, pains, helping even in the most mundane things as well as the large ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Absolutely right. I operate on this principle - it does not exist unless it exists without the words. You are not your labels, you are the sum of your actions. You do not love if you do not show it. You do not have empathy unless you show it. You are not faithful unless you show it. You are nothing but your actions, and I will judge you upon those alone.
    Neat! Gatsby really is a Christian after all!

    <falls on knees in supplication to the heavens>

    Praise God! It's a miracle!

    heehee
    Hey Capa. We're only stardust.

    She was waiting, but she didn't know for what. She was aware only of her solitude, and of the penetrating cold, and of a greater weight in the region of her heart. ~ Albert Camus

    Movie Reviews: What Jenny Saw

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Neat! Gatsby really is a Christian after all!
    I'm guessing you understand the irony of labelling me after that, right? The only reason I wouldn't be a Christian is because I am atheist... and that I act according to my own moral guidance, unlike a significant amount of Christians that use words and beliefs as their "salvation". The one thing that Christians serious lack are the acts that back their beliefs. It still just comes down to people - religion doesn't seem to have any effect on this.

    In the end, if you judge by actions alone, I'd make a far better Christian than the majority of them... least those that I've met. Forgiveness being built into a religion just seems to make people act like idiots.

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    Strongly Ambivalent Array Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I will post some more thoughts on it later. The link in the OP does go to the full text of the article I was quoting (plus the other 3 parts), so you could read that in context if that would help.

    RLP definitely advocates less theology and more "getting your hands dirty" by being part of people's lives -- joys, pains, helping even in the most mundane things as well as the large ones.
    It all sounds nice, and I liked the article, but I'll admit I was put off by the prominent Mastercard and Visa logos. Rev 18.13.

  10. #10
    Winter Rose Array Jennifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I'm guessing you understand the irony of labelling me after that, right?
    Of course -- that's why it was funny!

    ...Sigh. No one has a sense of humor anymore... Well, except for Oberon, but I don't know if he counts...

    The one thing that Christians serious lack are the acts that back their beliefs. It still just comes down to people - religion doesn't seem to have any effect on this.
    I found myself furious, then sad, then resigned, when I read an article this morning about how the Missouri Baptist Convention was pissed off at an interdenominational church they lent money to in the past, and one of the outreaches was meeting in a local brewery. People would pop in, grab brews, then talk to each other about life and God and philosophy and religion as it fits into society. (No one was getting drunk as far as I know, they were just discussing God over beers.)

    The Ms Baptists believing that non-abstinence from alcohol is sinful. (Don't ask me why -- I don't even think that stance is defensible, honestly.) So they voted to keep their abstinence and some are pushing for them to sever all contact with the interdenominational church org.

    This is exactly the sort of stupidity that is ruling too much of "Christian religion" today -- unsupportable adherence to a way of life that excludes people and focuses merely on maintaining rules and regulations. It makes me mad and want to exclude them.. except I'd be acting just like them if I did so. So then I become sad.

    In the end, if you judge by actions alone, I'd make a far better Christian than the majority of them... least those that I've met. Forgiveness being built into a religion just seems to make people act like idiots.
    "Cheap grace" is usually what is has been referred to for at least the last 30-40 years or so (if not a lot longer). People aren't changed by forgiveness unless they actually understand that, without it, they would be seriously screwed. Then it means something to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    It all sounds nice, and I liked the article, but I'll admit I was put off by the prominent Mastercard and Visa logos. Rev 18.13.
    Didn't even notice them... but I would vouch for Gordon as the "real deal." He pastors a small poor church in Texas, the people there work with their hands, he's about as far from a "traveling salesman mega-evangelist Benny-Hinn preacher" as you can get; and he's blacklisted by some of the more conservative churches and denominations because he's too honest about how he feels and uses the occasional vulgarity in his writing.
    Hey Capa. We're only stardust.

    She was waiting, but she didn't know for what. She was aware only of her solitude, and of the penetrating cold, and of a greater weight in the region of her heart. ~ Albert Camus

    Movie Reviews: What Jenny Saw

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