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  1. #1
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Default Bible Toys Invade Wal-Mart

    Samson Kicks Philistine Bottom!
    (either that, or he's a lousy dancer who doesn't even know what direction his partner is supposed to be facing.)



    Wal-Mart is about to bring religion to the toy aisle.

    Early next month, 425 Wal-Mart stores nationwide will begin carrying faith-based toys from One2believe that target parents who would rather that their kids play with a Samson action figure than a Spider-Man action figure.
    So... good idea? Bad? Silly? Stupid?

    And do you think this sort of thing actually helps promote the faith, or merely degrades it?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    And do you think this sort of thing actually helps promote the faith, or merely degrades it?
    Degrades for sure, though by itself it seems it will be a tiny influence overall.


    Assuming this does have an influence, however, it seems it could go one of two ways. One, is that religion will get turned into just another action figure set of stories, no more than another superhero type of thing. (Which for me is fine, though for others it probably isn't.). The other is that religion will get more associated with fighting and beating the crap out of enemies, as well as being dumbed down a bit, which is the more scary influence, as there is a need for less "my religion is better than yours, and I'll kick your ass if you don't agree" people. In general, at least for U.S. stereotypical strong believer religion groups, there seems the belief that all that is needed to solve problems is more military oomph, and religious conviction, while things like adaptability are ignored.

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    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So... good idea? Bad? Silly? Stupid?
    IMO,

    Good for training belief in children. Bad for development.

    And do you think this sort of thing actually helps promote the faith, or merely degrades it?
    It'll promote it simply by influencing children of the faith, most likely making a narrower worldview. Does it degrade it? Yes, to a degree. But then I take faith very seriously... in short, truth matters. Building up a support base from toys... well...

    What can I say? Some people do worship their transformers... Personally, I'd rather worship .

    I guess the point is - why not try to get more adults by getting religion into porn? Or why not turn it into a giant party?

    Though both have already happened. And the same reason I can't take Christian faith seriously. This is just an extension of it. In that sense, you bring people into the fold under the wrong pretense. That to me, above all else, is wrong.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I guess the point is - why not try to get more adults by getting religion into porn? Or why not turn it into a giant party?
    You're still bitter about BibleMan, aren't you?

    Christian commercialism took a new low for me when VeggieTales was subjugated and ruined... I shun today's Bob and Larry, I would rather remember them as they were... before Corruption struck.

    I think something that irritates me is that Christianity (especially) always seems to feel a need to duplicate what the world does, so that it can offer its constituents everything the world does but just with a "Christianized" twist. (Christian Contemporary Music, CCM, anyone?)

    Usually the product is inferior and rather vapid in terms of representing the faith it is trying to promote.

    Why does a child need a "Samson" doll to smash things up? Isn't a GI Joe morally good enough for a child?

    (Samson was a wretch anyway -- more of a moral-less, gluttonous sensual hedonist as per the Biblical narrative than many non-Christians I have ever met. I suppose they're not going to produce the "Samson and Delilah" sex set, or Samson with his eyes gouged out, or Samson sleeping around with the pagan women, or Samson slaughtering 1000 philistines with a jawbone? Too messy, hmm? Even Spiderman wasn't as gory as Samson.)

    That's one reason this all seems silly... aside from the obvious reclusive nature of those promoting the faith, who would rather isolate their children from the larger world and don't give them any thing better to replace it with, to be honest.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You're still bitter about BibleMan, aren't you?
    I'm not Christian, so I don't really care about particulars, even if they make my skin crawl... but I could show you far worse than that, but I'm afraid I'm not a collector of Christian porn

    (Samson was a wretch anyway -- more of a moral-less, gluttonous sensual hedonist as per the Biblical narrative than many non-Christians I have ever met. I suppose they're not going to produce the "Samson and Delilah" sex set, or Samson with his eyes gouged out, or Samson sleeping around with the pagan women, or Samson slaughtering 1000 philistines with a jawbone? Too messy, hmm? Even Spiderman wasn't as gory as Samson.)
    You just summed up why I have an issue with religion for kids being dumbed down to "play toys".

    Just ask: why would parents buy these toys? Is that a good reason?

    That's one reason this all seems silly... aside from the obvious reclusive nature of those promoting the faith, who would rather isolate their children from the larger world and don't give them any thing better to replace it with, to be honest.
    I have a real desire to start ranting at this point... but I'll contain myself and put it across in harsher and shorter terms.

    A child that picks his faith, his religion and therefore his moral guidance, from a conditioned childhood will be unlikely to ever be able to break free and reach a rational level of morality. Embracing something as truth only has meaning when it is chosen. Teaching a child what is right and wrong at a societal level is one thing; these toys start pushing into the immersion factors and replace explaining faith with conditioning. And it angers me... enough that I struggle with my (already low) coherence. :steam:

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I'm not Christian, so I don't really care about particulars, even if they make my skin crawl... but I could show you far worse than that, but I'm afraid I'm not a collector of Christian porn
    Now I'm intrigued.

    You just summed up why I have an issue with religion for kids being dumbed down to "play toys". Just ask: why would parents buy these toys? Is that a good reason?
    Because... they're not thinking?

    I can honestly say that I think Bill Clinton was a far better role model than Samson ever was, based on the written record.

    (I hope that didn't just give any closet Republicans out there an aneurysm. But hey, heaven awaits you... so why dilly-dally?)

    I have a real desire to start ranting at this point... but I'll contain myself and put it across in harsher and shorter terms.
    But it's never any fun until a Ti person starts to rant!

    A child that picks his faith, his religion and therefore his moral guidance, from a conditioned childhood will be unlikely to ever be able to break free and reach a rational level of morality. Embracing something as truth only has meaning when it is chosen. Teaching a child what is right and wrong at a societal level is one thing; these toys start pushing into the immersion factors and replace explaining faith with conditioning. And it angers me... enough that I struggle with my (already low) coherence. :steam:
    Yes, ah, that's it, that's it -- let the anger flow through you, let it become one with you, my apprentice! This is the taste of power! The darkness has made you strong!

    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Now I'm intrigued.
    The internet is your friend

    Because... they're not thinking?
    It's more than that. Imagine, just for a moment, that kids had a present real-world model? Can you think of the closest analogy to that character?

    Those are "America's" enemies, despotism, violent, fanatical... It is everything that is wrong with religion wrapped in a child's toy with the specific intent to immerse them in that one worldview.

    Yes, ah, that's it, that's it -- let the anger flow through you, let it become one with you, my apprentice! This is the taste of power! The darkness has made you strong!
    Funny, I had two reactions to that... First was "Are you my father?" and you saying "No, my child, your mother!". And the second was that darkness is a good way of looking at it, for before there was heaven and hell, there was only the abyss - a lack of existence, darkness for there was no light without God. I think of it as a good metaphor for the cold world that I embrace, where there is no light to guide me. It reflects in the "power", as defined as change, that I use to guide myself in the world... where knowledge is power, which can be only achieved in darkness... where light does not give you knowledge, but rather a path away from everything that is contained in that darkness. A single dimension of knowledge is held in the light...

    But seriously, the toys represent to me more than they actually are. The problem is with the people of the faith who use toys as a means. The problem is always with the people.

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    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Aside from Christian music and Vischer era Veggie Tales, I can't imagine buying that stuff. I've seen it for years of course, because it's been in Christian bookstores a long time, but it's just LAME. And Seriously, SAMSON??? Not a nice guy. Not a good guy. The only thing he had going for him Biblically was which side he was fighting on. Not someone I want my kids emulating.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    It's more than that. Imagine, just for a moment, that kids had a present real-world model? Can you think of the closest analogy to that character?

    Those are "America's" enemies, despotism, violent, fanatical... It is everything that is wrong with religion wrapped in a child's toy with the specific intent to immerse them in that one worldview.
    This is pretty much what I was hinting at earlier. In addition, if the person has limited exposure to other worldviews, having their own worldview dumbed down seems likely to dumb down the person with the view as well.

  10. #10
    Senior Member darlets's Avatar
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    As an atheist I think it's a wonderful idea. Anything the gets people interested in actually READING the Bible, the bit on pro slavery is still big in the South. It also gets people to realize that there is a large amount of money making in religion.

    Like for F#@$ sake, the catholic institution has now paid over 2 billion dollars of late out in compensation. That's people money they donate to "Charity" which is then used by the church to encourage the spread of aids in Africa and promote people to higher positions that have covered up the raping of children. And this is an institute the people turn to for moral guidence.

    Anything the encourages people to actually look at what Churches actually DO is a good thing.
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time."
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