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Thread: Is MBTI a Cult?

  1. #41
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Come on, man. Write us a BlueWing-style essay with arguments and evidence. Don't give us these one-liners with charged language. Give us something real. I think it's possible, and you are not delivering. And that makes this a very lame exercise indeed.
    For this to happen he'd need to drop his whole act. I don't think he's willing to do that.

  2. #42
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And I can tell you there are no workshops on doubt and dissent. And skeptical inquiry is unknown.
    How exactly do you give a workshop on doubt and dissent? Wouldn't any positive embrace of any topic be subject to your withering criticism as cultic? You can fetishize "doubt and dissent" just like anything else. Rejection of ideas is not synonymous with skepticism. You have yet to explain your initial claims.

    It seems people hate learning for the same reason they hate exercise - so we become obese and dumb.
    This sounds like the kind of unspecific scolding we would receive from a televangelist.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #43
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And I know that cognitive dissonance is a sign I am learning something.

    But so far, I don't know what it is.
    What you will learn is that this is a place where people, in their boredom, blow their time away.

    There is nothing else to be learned.

  4. #44
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    You would receive a very different reception from here at any church in my hometown- you would probably get thrown angrilly into the street or physically harmed by people. Don't mess with a person's God- the MBTI is merely an intellectual toy or hobby There's a difference.
    Good point, but I will say one thing in Victor's defense here since he doesn't seem to be making the distinction. The CAPT, who I think actually own the rights to MBTI, DO have more than a few cultish features from my limited knowledge of them - they certainly seem very secretive and over-protective of their system, as evinced by the recent site name change. I presume they were the cause of this, anyway. If you were arguing against THEM, Victor, I would agree with you rather more...

  5. #45
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Here's the thing:

    We smuggle in our own subjective perceptions. If I want to see MBTI as a cult, I will marshal the evidence for this view. If I want to see it as a framework for understanding reality, I will see it this way. If I want to see it as a meaningless diversion, I will see it that way.

    The compelling thing to me is that Victor carries in this somewhat pessimistic viewpoint that corresponds more directly to his psychological inclination than to any coherent argument, which is why he has failed to produce one. I will have to assume he has arrived at his views in a purely subjective way, based on the way he presented his claims.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  6. #46
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    What you will learn is that this is a place where people, in their boredom, blow their time away.

    There is nothing else to be learned.
    This is interesting for me, for although I do recognise others get bored, I can't say I have ever been bored.

    If anything, I find life too exciting.

    I remember a dear friend of mine telling me with some sarcasm that gee, you're life's exciting. But he was spot on. Every day is intensely exciting. Perhaps I have my thermostat set too high.

    And I do love to explore things I don't quite understand. As a boy I would go exploring in the Bush with my pony Trixie. And today I love books that are just beyond my grasp.

    I do though try and share my excitement. And I do have some success for short periods of time. But mostly people want to go back to boredom and emotional depression. I can only guess but perhaps boredom and emotional depression feel safe and familiar.

    But I still like to go exploring on my pony, Trixie.

    Would you like to climb up behind?

  7. #47
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Oh, this is interesting, I've looked the CAPT up, and they're based in Gainesville, Florida. I hadn't noticed them there. Very convenient, except that I'm not back there until next week. Maybe I could go for a stroll down the road and check them out... if anyone can offer me a compelling reason to bother, anyway.

  8. #48
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    You never had a pony named Trixie, what a big fat liar.

    You and your metaphor-whoring.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  9. #49
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    A cult is characterised by a guru and followers. As distinct from a philosopher who needs no followers because he teaches us to think for ourselves.

    Now Jesus Christ was guru of some note who deliberately sought followers. And so was a founder of cult.

    Of course if I walked into a Methodist Church and told them they were a cult, I would get exactly the same response as I get here.

    Because just as the Methodist Church is a cult, the New Age is a counter-cult.

    And it is very plain that the Methodists do see the New Agers as fully fledged competitors.
    The main issue here is a misuse of the word "cult". It may well be that you don't care for systems that have followers, but an actual cult is a distinct social dynamic from something like the Methodist church. Even if a cult uses the same dynamics taken to their extreme, there is still a notable difference. It is an exaggeration to suggest that people who belong to a social institution like a church do not ever think for themselves. The level of control is just not that high. Note the irony in your taking such an extreme position on this particular topic against a rejection of cultism which is defined by extremism.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #50
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    The main issue here is a misuse of the word "cult".
    That was on my mind too, but I don't think it's the main issue.

    I think the main issue is whether or not MBTI is contrived empirically. A system modeled after the patterns in the universe does not neccessarily contain the foundations of those patterns. In other words, if MBTI is contrived, it may fit the data, but it does not necessarily explain where the data come from.

    Since no one seems to know what the biological or environmental basis for personality is, it is hard for me to believe that the cognitive processes -- Ti, Te, Si, Se, Ni, Ne, Fi, Fe -- are actually cognitive processes, as opposed to behavioral patterns. I think this is the trap that a lot of people fall into -- they end up thinking that the cognitive processes are locked-in fundamental modes of brain function, and the total personality is a linear combination of these processes. I don't think this is true.

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