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View Poll Results: Moral relativism?

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  • Yea.

    24 64.86%
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  1. #21
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    How is moral absolutism true if the Christian God exists?
    If Christianity is correct and a Christian God exists, then by extension, moral absolutism would be correct and exist, because it's part of Christianity.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Noone can show that it is plausible for dragons to exist, should we use the existence of dragons as the foundation for our ideas in zoology?

    Or better yet morality? Should we make ethical decisions based on our belief that dragons exist?
    No. I don't think the Christian God theory is plausible either, but it is slightly more plausible than the dragon or the flying spaghetti monster theory.

  2. #22
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    The only way I could see morality having an existence outside of the grounds you gave in the initial post, would be if their is some kind of cognitively innate form of morality. Whether such a thing does exist is highly debatable.
    1)What is innate form of morality?
    2)What reasons are there for believing that it exists?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  3. #23
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    How is moral absolutism true if the Christian God exists?






    Noone can show that it is plausible for dragons to exist, should we use the existence of dragons as the foundation for our ideas in zoology?

    Or better yet morality? Should we make ethical decisions based on our belief that dragons exist?
    Put simply, we tend to draw beliefs from other beliefs. Things of a systematic nature, be they ethical, logical, taxanomic, etc.. are especially prone to being designed in ways that accounts for various things we believe to be true. So yes, if someone did believe that dragons existed, it would make sense for them to take the existence of dragons into account when trying to understand zoology (for instance, what is the evolutionary history of the dragon, and what class is it a part of?).

    The dragon is not so applicable to morality however. The reason God is, is because many faithful believe that God is the one who dictates what is moral. I suppose this still begs a thousand questions, but the devoutly religious seem to be far more comfortable with abruptly terminating inquiry than I am. There is a notion on their part that somehow, there is simply a bottom line for universal morality. You cannot use reasoning to undermine it, because they simply say that it is what it is. So in otherwords, Universal morality has no existence outside of faith.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #24
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Oh, certainly. But usually those types of arguments (for accepting a "moral" on the basis of tradition) try and sell the particular "moral" as being universal in the first place.
    Yeah I could respect the argument more if they were open about their appeal to tradition instead of pointing to some ancient scripture or trying to apply their morals to everyone's natural existence.

    But I suppose arguing for the status-quo isn't quite a sexy idea to sell.

  5. #25
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    1)What is innate form of morality?
    2)What reasons are there for believing that it exists?
    I mean "innate morality" as in neurologically inborn. The reasons for believing that it is exists is that various aspects of human thinking have been found to manifest themselves in brain activity, some of which we have figured out how to directly manipulate. This mental activity is often global, existing in people of all races in all parts of the world, and can include very complex processes such as guilt and empathy. It is on this basis that some suppose that certain underlying principles of morlity itself may be inherent in all people (though, even this hypothesis fails to account for the mentally deformed, such as psychopaths).
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #26
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    So yes, if someone did believe that dragons existed, it would make sense for them to take the existence of dragons into account when trying to understand zoology (for instance, what is the evolutionary history of the dragon, and what class is it a part of?). .
    If I believe that dragons exist because I found water on my floor, I should take them into account when trying to understand zoology, or understand what animals exist, and what they are like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    The dragon is not so applicable to morality however. The reason God is, is because many faithful believe that God is the one who dictates what is moral. I suppose this still begs a thousand questions, but the devoutly religious seem to be far more comfortable with abruptly terminating inquiry than I am. There is a notion on their part that somehow, there is simply a bottom line for universal morality. You cannot use reasoning to undermine it, because they simply say that it is what it is. So in otherwords, Universal morality has no existence outside of faith.
    What if I say that dragons meet me in my sleep and command me how to live. Moreoever, you all should listen to what I tell you, because dragons get upset when you do not do as they want you to, and only I know what they want you to do because they talk to me in my sleep, and when they get upset people die! The whole world shall catch on fire!

    Is this any less applicable to morality than belief in God?
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  7. #27
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    If I believe that dragons exist because I found water on my floor, I should take them into account when trying to understand zoology, or understand what animals exist, and what they are like.



    What if I say that dragons meet me in my sleep and command me how to live. Moreoever, you all should listen to what I tell you, because dragons get upset when you do not do as they want you to, and only I know what they want you to do because they talk to me in my sleep, and when they get upset people die! The whole world shall catch on fire!
    It must be understood that we are talking about a hypothesis here. The question isn't whether the original premise is true, but what conclusions would follow if the premise were. I'd think a person with such a fervant belief in dragons is probably very naive or crazy, because there appears to be no evidence that dragons exist. But if, for the sake of argument, dragons did exist, it would make sense for them to be accounted for.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Is this any less applicable to morality than belief in God?
    I basically think it's a matter of function. The more and more you describe dragons as entities which function like God does, the more applicable it becomes to the belief in God.

    As an added note, there are many different conceptions of God. My take on it varies significantly depending on whether we are talking about God as a cosmic, pantheistic entity, or some kind of wordly, interventionist diety. I personally believe in neither, but I would grant that the former is much more plausible than the latter.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #28
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Western World: Home of the Relativists. Home of "Tolerance." Enjoy.
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  9. #29
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    Welcome to the Western World: Home of the Relativists. Home of "Tolerance." Enjoy.
    i dunno. i mean, i think in general the recent trend is to NOT care what other people/cultures think...

    but yeah, i think its another thing entirely to know what and how others think first, and then not care. but understand thats just how they think...

  10. #30
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    I worry for absolutists. Not only are they potentially dangerous, but I think they're severely out of touch.

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