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  1. #41
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    You'll notice that the OP specifically only mentioned Jesus, and how he preached general pacifism and there wasn't anything violent about him. Contrast this image with the one of Mohammed provided by the OP, and one can see where the OP is coming from. I don't know if the OP's depiction of Mohammed is accurate or not though.

    Christianity does indeed have a bloody history, but this is more the result of the Church than of the faith.
    Please don't make me start quoting Jesus. He wasn't as peaceful as the OP or you are making him out to be. Not to say he was a war monger, but it's cherry picking to say he preached general pacifism.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  2. #42
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    Please don't make me start quoting Jesus. He wasn't as peaceful as the OP or you are making him out to be. Not to say he was a war monger, but it's cherry picking to say he preached general pacifism.
    I won't make you, but I'd be interested in the passages that make you think this way. I've had to read all 4 witness accounts for school, but it's been a while. I don't recall him being anything other than a very peaceful man.



  3. #43
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I won't make you, but I'd be interested in the passages that make you think this way. I've had to read all 4 witness accounts for school, but it's been a while. I don't recall him being anything other than a very peaceful man.
    *Sigh

    Just a couple:

    Luke 22:36
    He said to them, But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
    Luke 12:49-51
    I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism* to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished! Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father* against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.
    Matthew 10:34-39
    Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.
    All that's missing in this last one is the 7 virgins in heaven...
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  4. #44
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    These are innocent at best. He is telling those to follow him, the Word of God, and not the ways of their fathers, mothers, etc. He is the new path [notice the divide is generational]. Out with the old, in with the new. Also, I think you're interpreting "lost his life for me will find it" incorrectly.



  5. #45
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    These are innocent at best. He is telling those to follow him, the Word of God, and not the ways of their fathers, mothers, etc. He is the new path [notice the divide is generational]. Out with the old, in with the new. Also, I think you're interpreting "lost his life for me will find it" incorrectly.
    Pure interpretation.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  6. #46
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    Pure interpretation.
    Is it wrong?



  7. #47
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Is it wrong?
    Subjectivity by definition cannot be wrong. I read the words literally, to me a sword is a sword, fire is fire, division is division, death is death. To you, they are all metaphors for something else which makes them all benign. C'est la vi. Unless we can question a dead (undead?) man it's your interpretation versus mine. Much like what we find in the Islamic world, yet it's the interpretation of the Fundamentalist that is allowed to be represented as the interpretation of the vast majority of peaceful Muslims.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  8. #48
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendoiwan View Post
    Subjectivity by definition cannot be wrong. I read the words literally, to me a sword is a sword, fire is fire, division is division, death is death. To you, they are all metaphors for something else which makes them all benign. C'est la vi. Unless we can question a dead (undead?) man it's your interpretation versus mine. Much like what we find in the Islamic world, yet it's the interpretation of the Fundamentalist that is allowed to be represented as the interpretation of the vast majority of peaceful Muslims.
    Tremendous point, especially the bolded. I do think that literal interpretation of prophets, poets, and other great orators is always a mistake. The Fundamentalists just make the most noise; a vocal minority is commonly perceived as the rule.

    However, I wonder if you also find Islam to be inherently violent?



  9. #49
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    @OP

    Sigh. Tsk tsk tsk.

    Does anyone personally know a violent Muslim?

    If your talking about the current trend of Islamic terrorism, think about the Crusades back then.

  10. #50
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Tremendous point, especially the bolded. I do think that literal interpretation of prophets, poets, and other great orators is always a mistake. The Fundamentalists just make the most noise; a vocal minority is commonly perceived as the rule.

    However, I wonder if you also find Islam to be inherently violent?

    How can one look at the history of the world and legitimately find Islam inherently more violent that any other religion or philosophy? Without getting into a lecture about who invaded who and when and such, it simply comes down to the leaders of any given idea, how they interpret and teach it.

    Reality dictates nothing is inherently anything.

    The same way most Christian leaders believe those above cited verses aren't violent (regardless of what I personally think). The same way most Christians don't literally believe there needs to be a holy war in Israel to hasten the 2nd coming (Despite what some Christian Fundamentalist think). The same way Christians no longer condone slavery although I can cite plenty of Jesus quotes that clearly do (Slaves are ok as long as you're a kind master). The same way between the hundreds of different sects of Christianity there are vast differences in practice and interpretation.

    An idea is how you use it.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

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