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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    There are peaceful Jews. Their patriarchs/heroes/founders were not particularly peaceful, nor is the Hebrew G-d.
    The Jewish texts are not particularly peaceful, but they are concerned with the survival of a people and a culture. Jews are not instructed to go out to convert, to spread, to subjugate non-believers. Islam is concenred with the establishment of an Empire, with converting by force, and with creating an apartheid state where non-believers - dhimmis - are second-class citizens. At leas this is what Mohammed did - acting on the instructions God gave him in the Quran, which is God's uncorrupted, all-econmpassing and flawless message. As far as I am concerned, it's unique amongst contemporary religions in the sense that it's central message is one of violence and conquest.
    dead man talking

  2. #12
    Senior Member darlets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Qui Parla View Post
    I am no big fan of christianity, or any other religion for that matter

    however, the Jesus Christ, real or imagined, which christians place as their ultimate guide, was not a violent man. He turned over some merchants tables and cursed a fig tree, that's about it. Therefore, I think it's possible for a true christian to be peaceful and tolerant.
    I'm curious. Have you read the bible?

    Peaceful?
    "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

    "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:"

    The big guy killing pigs after casting out demons. What he couldn't just make them disappear?
    "And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters."

    Is this J.C or George Bush?
    "He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth."

    "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

    But back to your question, Islam is what it is, a religion for Nomad Warriors aimed at helping that area unite to fight off invaders.
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time."
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  3. #13

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    Have you read both the Quran and the bible? if not, then it follows you won't know the difference.
    dead man talking

  4. #14
    Senior Member darlets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Qui Parla View Post
    Have you read both the Quran and the bible? if not, then it follows you won't know the difference.
    The New testiment was written within a stable empire with a legal system, its mesasge is simple you disobey the "Laws" you get punished, you obey the laws you get rewarded. There's a carrot and there's a stick. Like most religions it reinforces the culture it involves in. The Sumerian and Babalyon religions are good examples of this.

    The Quran was written in an unstable environment the was crying out for a uniting reason to go forth and conquer with. (Christianity had the Romans do the conquering and set up a legal system and framework for them).

    You'll find the old Testment alot more conquest driven because it was written when the babylonians freed the jewish slave and they returned to their homelands to find them occupied.

    The religions that are successful are the ones that can infect the best warriors of the time.

    The world has alot to thank the Ancient Greek and Roman cultures for. The Roman Republic existed for 500 years and the western roman empire for another 500. Thankfully the Christian religion only influenced the last 150 years of it. One of the Romans strenghs was their secular view on society, acceptance of multiple belief systems and their use and development of technology/science.

    Oh, this is just a cool map thingy from wikipedia
    religious map
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time."
    Bertrand Russell

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  5. #15
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    There was an interesting snippet in Psychology Today (August 2007) that said that the Muslim faith contributed to suicide bombings... not totally because of the doctrine(s) but mostly because it permitted polygamy.

    Almost all of the Muslim suicide bombers are young unmarried males. The reasoning was that polygamy is good for women, bad for men (women benefit because there's a better chance for them to be financially supported by a man; men do not benefit because there are less women to go around, so the poor or unappealing men cannot acquire mates).

    So there are many young males with no outlet for their sex drive, and they are promised 72 virgins for martyring themselves. Thus, these men are more prone to going through with it, having nothing to lose and something to gain.

    I know China has had issues due to the "one child" rule; and in a culture that reveres boy babies more than girl babies, in order to carry on the family name and traditions, this means there is now a large inequity between male and female in the culture. (I think the ratio is 55-60% male, 45-40% female). And because of this and a lack of women to go around, male aggression and energy is directed outward and crime/violence goes up.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #16
    Senior Member darlets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    There was an interesting snippet in Psychology Today (August 2007) that said that the Muslim faith contributed to suicide bombings... not totally because of the doctrine(s) but mostly because it permitted polygamy.

    Almost all of the Muslim suicide bombers are young unmarried males. The reasoning was that polygamy is good for women, bad for men (women benefit because there's a better chance for them to be financially supported by a man; men do not benefit because there are less women to go around, so the poor or unappealing men cannot acquire mates).
    This is very valid and to extent upon it, the problem just gets worse and worse.

    There's young suicide bombers then there's young suicide bombers
    "Children as young as six are being used by the Taliban in increasingly desperate suicide missions, coalition forces in Afghanistan claimed yesterday."

    ""They placed explosives on a six-year-old boy and told him to walk up to the Afghan police or army and push the button," said Captain Michael Cormier, the company commander who intercepted the child, in a statement. "Fortunately, the boy did not understand and asked patrolling officers why he had this vest on.""
    Nato accuses Taliban of using children in suicide missions | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

    "SAIMA KHAN wants to die a martyr. Life is transient, she told her father in a telephone call last week, and the real glory is to sacrifice it for Allah. Her statement would be alarming at any age, but Saima is only 10.

    As she spoke, rifle shots rang out, the acrid smell of tear gas drifted over Islamabad and hundreds of troops surrounded the pro-Taliban Red Mosque, a religious school complex in the heart of Pakistan's capital where Saima was among hundreds of children being held as virtual hostages in a stand-off between militants and the government.

    Saima and her 14-year-old sister, Asma, were embroiled in a struggle for the soul of Pakistan in which up to 70 militants died last week and more than 100 were injured, according to mosque officials."
    Brainwashed children plead to die as martyrs in Red Mosque siege - Times Online

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So there are many young males with no outlet for their sex drive, and they are promised 72 virgins for martyring themselves. Thus, these men are more prone to going through with it, having nothing to lose and something to gain.
    And what they wish to gain is "property", a womans virginity. This can be have some rather brutal outcomes

    "The campaign is being launched at the start of the summer holidays, during which young girls - mainly from African communities - are thought most at risk.

    Mutilation involves the partial or total removal of external female genitalia for cultural reasons.

    Up to 7,000 girls in the UK are seen as at risk of this form of circumcision."
    BBC NEWS | UK | Police plea on genital mutilation


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I know China has had issues due to the "one child" rule; and in a culture that reveres boy babies more than girl babies, in order to carry on the family name and traditions, this means there is now a large inequity between male and female in the culture. (I think the ratio is 55-60% male, 45-40% female). And because of this and a lack of women to go around, male aggression and energy is directed outward and crime/violence goes up.
    India also has the aborton problem
    "More than 10m female births in India may have been lost to abortion and sex selection in the past 20 years, according to medical research."
    BBC NEWS | South Asia | India 'loses 10m female births'

    "People say, you have two girl children, you have done some sins in your past life"
    BBC NEWS | South Asia | India's lost girls

    Womens rights need to be argued and fought for to overcome the dogmatic wall of cultural and religious beliefs.

    How many more humans have to shrink into a dark corner, cowering, shivering and sobbing in the foetal position, searching their brains for what they have done wrong to deserve this brutalization. Their only "crime", being born a female, if they get to be born at all.

    These beliefs come in many forms and degrees, from the seemingly innocuous definition of gender roles within a relationship in the Christian Institution which then goes on to permuate through out society, to the barbaric circumcision of females, finally through to the abortion of foetus's with two X Chromosomes.

    Why is religion and culture so breastaphobic? I like breasts. Some of my best friends have breasts. Damn some of my best friends are married to people with breasts. Do people think breasts have some sort of higher metabolic rate that takes nutrients away from the brain and makes women dumber? If anything breasts seem to make males dumber. Perhaps Freud should have written about breasts envy and not penis envy.

    The world should know, breasts are good, people attached to breasts are better and worth keeping on the planet. Through out our planets history half the people born with genius level intelligence have been female, less than 1% of them have gotten the opportunity to let their brilliance shine.

    How long does our species have to continue this insanity of battling its way along in the universe with one of its intellectual hands tied behinds its back?
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time."
    Bertrand Russell

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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by darlets View Post
    ""They placed explosives on a six-year-old boy and told him to walk up to the Afghan police or army and push the button," said Captain Michael Cormier, the company commander who intercepted the child, in a statement. "Fortunately, the boy did not understand and asked patrolling officers why he had this vest on.""
    I find that very disturbing, until I think more about it... and then I go past disturbed and become angry and heartbroken.

    Mutilation involves the partial or total removal of external female genitalia for cultural reasons.
    While the case for male circumcision seemed to make sense centuries ago, female circumcision only ever seemed to be part of a horrific social power game. (The male equivalent would be to lopping off the man's entire penis, to the base.) I just can't imagine how people could justify and then carry out such an act upon another human being.

    "People say, you have two girl children, you have done some sins in your past life"


    I like breasts.
    So do I. (And I can't wait until I have some!)

    Some of my best friends have breasts. Damn some of my best friends are married to people with breasts. Do people think breasts have some sort of higher metabolic rate that takes nutrients away from the brain and makes women dumber? If anything breasts seem to make males dumber. Perhaps Freud should have written about breasts envy and not penis envy.
    I guess Freud was a penis man.

    I think most men love breasts. If you give them a choice between raw cleavage and a pretty face, there's really no question about where the eyes should be focused...

    But anyway... I agree with you. What was the topic here again? Oh, yes, unavoidable Muslim violence!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    Senior Member darlets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I find that very disturbing, until I think more about it... and then I go past disturbed and become angry and heartbroken.
    Indeed.
    Poor kid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    While the case for male circumcision seemed to make sense centuries ago, female circumcision only ever seemed to be part of a horrific social power game. (The male equivalent would be to lopping off the man's entire penis, to the base.) I just can't imagine how people could justify and then carry out such an act upon another human being.
    "Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Steven Weinberg.
    I think "religion" in the above quote needs to be replace with "dogma" (theistic or atheistic), people need to think. I don't mind faith, but blind faith is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post



    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    But anyway... I agree with you. What was the topic here again? Oh, yes, unavoidable Muslim violence!
    I'm tired, cantankerous and preachy today. Sorry, its not a good combination.
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time."
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  9. #19
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darlets View Post
    I'm tired, cantankerous and preachy today. Sorry, its not a good combination.
    I'll take your "cantankerous and preachy" over most people's best behavior any day.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #20
    Senior Member darlets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I'll take your "cantankerous and preachy" over most people's best behavior any day.
    Why thank you.

    Ummm, is your avatar a vigilante fairy? It looks ready to go lay down the smack.

    In answer to the original question is yes, yes you can, unfortunately any form of beliefs will have their extermist and it then comes down to what the belief system is.

    As a Jainist gets more and more extreme they become more peaceful.
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time."
    Bertrand Russell

    http://rayofsolar.blogspot.com/
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