• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Richard Dawkins disapproves of "anti-scientific" literature, like "Harry Potter"

S

Sniffles

Guest
Richard Dawkins disapproves of "anti-scientific" literature, like "Harry Potter"

"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. He is the man who has lost everything except his reason."
--GK Chesterton


"Richard Dawkins, the evolutionary biologist and "God Delusion" polemicist, recently offered a frightening glimpse of what might be called the reverse-fundamentalist worldview.

Mr. Dawkins mused to a British television network that fairy tales and supernatural-themed books such as the "Harry Potter" series are "anti-scientific."

"Whether that has a pernicious effect, I don't know," the 67-year-old British writer said. "Looking back to my own childhood, the fact that so many of the stories I read allowed the possibility of frogs turning into princes, whether that has a sort of insidious effect on rationality, I'm not sure. Perhaps it's something for research."

It's telling that, in this case, the conclusion, provisional though it may be, reached by a hyperrationalist scientist mirrors exactly that of those who object to "Harry Potter" on religious grounds: that a mind that too frequently wanders from the realm of settled truth becomes vulnerable to poisonous falsehoods.

Mr. Dawkins' suspicion of fairy tales - of imagination - is an indication of the extremes to which philosophical materialism can lead...."


Washington Times - EDGE: The Richard Dawkins delusion
 

GargoylesLegacy

Kickin' Ass since 1984
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,399
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
8w9
Hm, I DO see his Point. Too much of "Fairytales" can really spoil one's Mind to where he can become surrealistic. On the other Hand he probably should not take those Books too serious either. Many of them are just thought to be a "slip out of Reality" and offer nice Stuff to dream or think about.
But I'd say when People seriously start to believe EVERYTHING that is written in such Books, it can be quite dangerous (Loss of Reality, which is never good).

I actually know some Persons like that from my Buddies IRL. One actually believes that her future Boyfriend looks like one of those Characters of the Harry Potter Book. She also thinks that Jason (Freddy vs Jason) is real and he looks just like in the Movie. And uhm...well, I dun think it is too healthy. She is actually pretty "psyched" if you ask me.
Then I know this other Girl who seriously believes that the egpytian God Seth is in Love with her and she never took a Boyfriend until now, because "she waits for him".
So, again: I DO see his Point.

Oh and really great Thread, Peguy!
 

ptgatsby

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,476
MBTI Type
ISTP
Title: Richard Dawkins disapproves of "anti-scientific" literature, like "Harry Potter"

"Richard Dawkins, the evolutionary biologist and "God Delusion" polemicist, recently offered a frightening glimpse of what might be called the reverse-fundamentalist worldview.

Mr. Dawkins mused to a British television network that fairy tales and supernatural-themed books such as the "Harry Potter" series are "anti-scientific."

"Whether that has a pernicious effect, I don't know," the 67-year-old British writer said. "Looking back to my own childhood, the fact that so many of the stories I read allowed the possibility of frogs turning into princes, whether that has a sort of insidious effect on rationality, I'm not sure. Perhaps it's something for research."

It's telling that, in this case, the conclusion, provisional though it may be, reached by a hyperrationalist scientist mirrors exactly that of those who object to "Harry Potter" on religious grounds: that a mind that too frequently wanders from the realm of settled truth becomes vulnerable to poisonous falsehoods.

Mr. Dawkins' suspicion of fairy tales - of imagination - is an indication of the extremes to which philosophical materialism can lead...."

Did we read the same article?
 

Edgar

Nerd King Usurper
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
4,266
MBTI Type
INTJ
Instinctual Variant
sx
I actually support this. I think that there is far too much ilusions in modern society.

Extremism in any form is detrimental to human development.

How effective can an inventor be if he does not have a wild imagination?
 

GargoylesLegacy

Kickin' Ass since 1984
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,399
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
8w9
How effective can an inventor be if he does not have a wild imagination?
Very true, Edgar.
I guess like Everything, this is another Question of "right Dosis". Too much of either one can be damaging, so a Balance is Best I guess.
 

Usehername

On a mission
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
3,794
He isn't asserting things, only musing.

If anyone asserted these claims, that would be just as alarming as the extreme fundie religious people. But he looks like he's just saying, "what if?"
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
Title: Richard Dawkins disapproves of "anti-scientific" literature, like "Harry Potter"

Did we read the same article?

Well then write to the Washington Times about it, because if you click the link that's what it states:

"Biologist-writer Richard Dawkins disapproves of "anti-scientific" literature, including the "Harry Potter" books."
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,723
Extremism in any form is detrimental to human development.

How effective can an inventor be if he does not have a wild imagination?

1. True

2. Who is talking about inventors?
We are talking about public that is losing common sense.
 

Edgar

Nerd King Usurper
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
4,266
MBTI Type
INTJ
Instinctual Variant
sx
1. True

2. Who is talking about inventors?
We are talking about public that is losing common sense.

Not sure what you're driving at here.
I don't think it will be beneficial to public if you take away their fairy tale books.
 

kelric

Feline Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
2,169
MBTI Type
INtP
I think the conclusions in that article, based on Dawkins' actual statements as quoted, seem a bit overblown. Basically he says that fairy tales are unscientific (obviously true), and that he's not sure if that might lead people away from rationality, and opens the possibility of addressing the question by researching it.

Note that the quotes in the story don't include anything like "I disapprove of fairy tales" (although the author states that Dawkins disapproves). Dawkins himself is simply making an obvious point and asking a question, not proclaiming a judgment.

If he *were* proclaiming that fairy tales (and other stories) are bad, I'd disagree with him. Most people can tell the difference between fiction and nonfiction - and there's no question that even clearly fictional stories can teach real-world lessons (not to mention the fact that fun stories are... fun!). I'm all in favor of fictional literature of all types (even the types I don't like). You could even make the point that fiction helps us learn to think about what's true and what isn't.

All in all, the story just seems like an effort to make Dawkins look bad. In particular, to associate him with the very strict religious people who disapprove of the Harry Potter books on the basis that they'll lead people (children) into witchcraft - and insinuating that his disagreement with religion is hypocritical, because he "shares" a viewpoint. Whether you agree with Dawkins' viewpoint or not, he seems like the punching bag here.
 
Last edited:

ptgatsby

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,476
MBTI Type
ISTP
Well then write to the Washington Times about it, because if you click the link that's what it states:

"Biologist-writer Richard Dawkins disapproves of "anti-scientific" literature, including the "Harry Potter" books."

You included a caption from a picture, one of many. Not the title, or even from the summary.

However, the central point was that the article found sensation completely out of context of the actual interview.
 

Orangey

Blah
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
6,354
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
6w5
I think the conclusions in that article, based on Dawkins' actual statements as quoted, seem a bit overblown. Basically he says that fairy tales are unscientific (obviously true), and that he's not sure if that might lead people away from rationality, and opens the possibility of addressing the question by researching it.

Note that the quotes in the story don't include anything like "I disapprove of fairy tales" (although the author states that Dawkins disapproves). Dawkins himself is simply making an obvious point and asking a question, not proclaiming a judgment.

If he *were* proclaiming that fairy tales (and other stories) are bad, I'd disagree with him. Most people can tell the difference between fiction and nonfiction - and there's no question that even clearly fictional stories can teach real-world lessons (not to mention the fact that fun stories are... fun!). I'm all in favor of fictional literature of all types (even the types I don't like). You could even make the point that fiction helps us learn to think about what's true and what isn't.

All in all, the story just seems like an effort to make Dawkins look bad. In particular, to associate him with the very strict religious people who disapprove of the Harry Potter books on the basis that they'll lead people (children) into witchcraft - and insinuating that his disagreement with religion is hypocritical, because he "shares" a viewpoint. Whether you agree with Dawkins' viewpoint or not, he seems like the punching bag here.

Yes, exactly. He never claimed that fairytales were definitively bad. The article was sensationalizing.
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Dawkins is a crazy, irrational fool.

INFJ.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,723
Not sure what you're driving at here.
I don't think it will be beneficial to public if you take away their fairy tale books.

To some degree I agee with you but I think that we are in a "red" zone when it comes to this. More and more people has some "weird" or bizzare beliefs.
 

Orangey

Blah
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
6,354
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
6w5
To some degree I agee with you but I think that we are in a "red" zone when it comes to this. More and more people has some "weird" or bizzare beliefs.

Are you serious? No one has weird or bizarre beliefs as a result of reading fantasy books.
 
Top