User Tag List

First 101819202122 Last

Results 191 to 200 of 244

  1. #191
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    I'm still puzzled if he really is serious or not... or if it was taken out of context. Apparently, he was friends with Douglas Adams. The people I know who act that way would not even read a fantasy/sci-fi writer, let alone be good friends with one (he met his wife through Adams, so I assume that they must have been good friends).

    Anyways.. of course Harry Potter isn't real. And I don't think there are even many children that truly would believe so. Or eventually, they tone it down.. like I did with some things. They'll geek out on it and maybe find inspiration from it, but it is such a non-issue. If someone was looking from the outside and thought these kids were lost or wanted to criticize or even restrict society, then ironically, I think they are more out of touch with reality than anyone. To think one's hold on reality is so much better than everyone else's that you have to "chime in" that Harry Potter is bad for kids is a fantasy in and of itself. One where you're some gallant hero of mental clarity in some pisshole of a world devoid of rationalism. Give me a break.

  2. #192
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,628

    Default

    Well if the dude invented memetics he clearly thinks that any ideas other than his own are a harmful virus and to be avoided.

  3. #193
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    SEXY
    Posts
    1,868

    Default

    I can't make from the article what Richard Dawkins' point of view actually is. Nothing that is quoted or paraphrased from him seems to indicate he would be against fantasy novels, even if they do promote un-scientific thinking. But for the sake of the thread I will asume the author of the article got Dawkins' point of view correct and based on that give my opinion:

    Even if fantasy novels would cause un-scientific thinking, which seems highly unlikely to me, then there's still not really a logical reason to object to them, and there could still be multiple rational reasons why you would be in favour of them (relaxation, fostering creativity etc.) Unless you can clearly demonstrate that fairy tales are a form of escapism, or that they diminish interest in relevant fields of knowledge or the world in general, than there is absolutely no reason to be against them.

    Next we burn all art, because Picasso's paintings look nothing like real faces.

    After that we could go for all music because our ears were evolutionary probably intended to hear predators rather than irrelevant background noise!

    So yeah, I agree with Brian Green from the article.
    (removed)

  4. #194
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,489

    Default

    I don't think he was actually condemning the idea at all (as discussed over two years ago in the beginning of this thread), but any excuse for a good Dawkins bashing, I guess.

    I'm not defending the guy, I don't know him, but I'm not sure it was the intended direction of the thread. Oh well.

    btw, I'm in biological science (research) and I read hundreds if not thousands of fantasy and sci-fi books as a child and continue to do so now. /anecdote
    -end of thread-

  5. #195
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    1,764

    Default

    Wait. Are we bashing Dawkins now or are we bashing Harry Potter?!?
    Because I don't want to do either!

    Please stop calling Harry Potter fans childish. Okay, HP is a children's book - but there is a huge difference between reading books meant for children and being childish. There's a reason the libraries put labels like "10+" on their books. I like reading. I read a lot. I've borrowed both from the children's and the adult's section in the library. Lots of adult books are basically bad children's books with more complicated grammar, nonexisting plot and a bit of sex added to it to make it an adult book. I've been disappointed more than once, especially with "good literature". It seems a book needs to be hard to read, full of symbols, and lacking action to be called "good". Please - this is just a matter of taste, not of stupidity. I'm able to read a sentence with a subclause, thank you very much.

    About Dawkins - I've read two books of him, The selfish gene and The god delusion. I like them both. I've even bought a book he suggests as reading material in The god delusion; this one is The golden bough of Sir James Frazer. Not an easy read, but very interesting. I don't really know everything about his stance on fantasy fiction and I'm not going to bash him based on incomplete information.

    I only think it's perfectly possible to be an atheist and a scientist and a fan of unscientific fantasy/SF fiction. I'm all three. That's why I reacted in this thread in the first place - to disprove the "atheists have no imagination / are as bad as religious fundamentalists" these.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  6. #196
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    Aeon
    Enneagram
    10w so
    Socionics
    LOL
    Posts
    1,366

    Default

    Guys, this isn't a strongly held belief of Dawkins, it is an elaboration by a journalist based on a few candid comments. No point attacking a strawman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Seriously, how many times can one writer use the sentence "Dumbledore's eyes twinkled" before taking it out of rotation?
    Blasphemy!

    PS, how many times was that phrase used?

  7. #197
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    Wait. Are we bashing Dawkins now or are we bashing Harry Potter?!?
    Because I don't want to do either!

    Please stop calling Harry Potter fans childish. Okay, HP is a children's book - but there is a huge difference between reading books meant for children and being childish.
    I'm not sure anyone here has called HP fans childish. I guess they might have, but for myself, I didn't and wouldn't say that. I just don't think the book is good. I love good childrens' literature, though.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  8. #198
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    738
    Socionics
    ILE None
    Posts
    7,265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    In scientific viewpoint, Harry Potter is actually quite modern. There is an increase in knowledge, eg. Dumbledore discovered some uses for dragon blood. Compare that with the Lord of the Rings, where there is a decrease in everything - knowledge, power, greatness... Harry Potters world is an evolving one, getting more complex and great as time increases; while LOTR has been shapen perfectly and is decaying since. Mr. Dawkins should at least approve of that :-) I can understand him criticizing other aspects of HP's magic, though.(*)
    .
    Yeah but you could say that a realm where all the magic\greatness etc is in the past would, in the long run, have to rely on science as 'the magic leaves the world'.
    It's still a bit silly to 'disapprove of anti scientific litterature'. I'd rather encourage a renewal of interest in hard science fiction instead for example. But hard sci fi sort of requires some interest in sciences while all you need to 'understand' fantasy is basically to have heard of magic, and children tales are generally irrational, partly because a child's cognitive abilities are lacking relative to a grown up's.

    The thoughts are less complex, there's less ability to hold (in mind) and combine many elements at once. Magic is both very simple and can provide children with continuous novelty (normally unlikely in systems so simple), kids are basically evolutionarily hardwired to like it. Science based works don't function in that way, if you want 'more' you generally have to make it more complex, to ask the reader for more background knowledge etc.

    So there's far more chances of having some kind of emotional attachement to the thing from an early age.
    It'd be interesting to see authors try to write more good scifi for kids. (like Ender's game for example)
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  9. #199
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    So, let me get this straight... the man brings up the possibility that fairy tales might lead to irrational thinking, and suggests that research be done... and suddenly he's billed as trying to ban them like a religious fundamentalist?

    People really need to learn the meaning of "might" and "if." I have a major problem with people assuming I support a position simply because I acknowledge that if certain things are true, or certain assumptions are made, it might make sense. Often, I point this out even if I oppose the position in question.
    Look at who started the thread...a butt-hurt creationist. I don't think I need to explain why he would be motivated to start a thread like this.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #200
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    738
    Socionics
    ILE None
    Posts
    7,265

    Default

    About the article itself (i was just stating that such a statement would be silly, not that I believe any hear say)
    The author sorts of deforms the idea that dawkins 'd like it studied and make it into a crusade of epic proportion.
    That's sort of like talking about hungry africans everytime somebody asks you to pass the bread.

    And describing dawkins as humorless is just silly, the guy spends half his time making fun of religious people. : P
    The man sure is a bit over zealous at times, but then again history and common sense taught us that the calm and composed voice of reason by itself rarely convinces when faced with overly emotional crazy utterances and horrible misconceptions of statistics or causation vs correlation.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

Similar Threads

  1. Type Mike Using Any System based off of Quote and Picture
    By Mal12345 in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 04-11-2017, 10:35 PM
  2. "Root of All Evil?" doco by Richard Dawkins
    By darlets in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 06-29-2015, 08:39 AM
  3. Who else disapproves of Uberfuhrer's previous new avatar?
    By Athenian200 in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 96
    Last Post: 10-11-2007, 11:52 AM
  4. The Enemies of Reason by Richard Dawkins
    By Sahara in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 08-20-2007, 12:26 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO