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  1. #151
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    My suggestion, in return, is to reread the article again without knowing who wrote it. The journalist did a hatchet job on what Dawkin's said in the opinion piece. The OP and the title of the thread followed this pattern. Then personal attacks where thrown at him and not what he said. I am also not playing devil's advocate, beyond saying "who knows". As far as my bias goes, I doubt it runs in the manner you are thinking. An over-bias towards this kind of work, perhaps, I'll grant you.
    I think that he's saying that most people in the thread acknowledged that the article misrepresented Dawkins' opinion on fantasy books (or non-opinion, if you like), but that they had legitimate reasons to be critical of him and his work outside of this particular issue.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #152
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I think that he's saying that most people in the thread acknowledged that the article misrepresented Dawkins' opinion on fantasy books (or non-opinion, if you like), but that they had legitimate reasons to be critical of him and his work outside of this particular issue.
    Fair enough. I kept my eyes on the OP too long, I suppose. I guess I was also off put by a lot of personal attacks in close proximity. /me exits.

  3. #153
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Maybe this will help make it clearer:

    1) From Dawkins' own website



    2) Dawkins' Wikipedia entry



    Not that I'm saying he might have an agenda here, or anything...

    Those things are all fine, but he can be really obnoxious about it.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #154
    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Extremism in any form is detrimental to human development.

    How effective can an inventor be if he does not have a wild imagination?
    Exactly. If you can imagine it, most likely you can create it. Just sometimes it takes other people to make someone's dreams become reality.

    Why being stuck in a fantasy world may be detrimental but it is great for a healthy imagination in the long run, especially if it gets people to read.

  5. #155
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maabus1999 View Post
    Exactly. If you can imagine it, most likely you can create it. Just sometimes it takes other people to make someone's dreams become reality.

    Why being stuck in a fantasy world may be detrimental but it is great for a healthy imagination in the long run, especially if it gets people to read.
    Especially if its complex and challenging. I actually was just reading a book called "how to read critically" or something, and they mentioned the fact that while it is alright to encourage reading it should be focused towards actually coherent, well written books.

    Comic book's were kind of discouraged, but elaborate fantasies like the lord of the rings and the like where there is a lot to be learned implicitly by reading it are great. I used to be a reading fanatic and I learned A TON by it, not the least of which was vocabulary and complex grammar and sentence structure. Envisioning a complex dynamic world with the help of an author was definitely also something I relished.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  6. #156
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Peguy, I can't help but note that everything you post on this message board is nothing more than an elaborate take on the "atheists are just as crazy as the religious hardliners, therefore the truth must lie somewhere in the middle" fallacy.

  7. #157
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    I've read the first and the last post (it's a pretty long thread) :-)
    But that's than one thing I disagree with Mr. Dawkins. Why not? There's a place in the world for fantasy, and that place is in the book shelf and on paintings and all sorts of art!
    In scientific viewpoint, Harry Potter is actually quite modern. There is an increase in knowledge, eg. Dumbledore discovered some uses for dragon blood. Compare that with the Lord of the Rings, where there is a decrease in everything - knowledge, power, greatness... Harry Potters world is an evolving one, getting more complex and great as time increases; while LOTR has been shapen perfectly and is decaying since. Mr. Dawkins should at least approve of that :-) I can understand him criticizing other aspects of HP's magic, though.(*)
    BUT - and here comes a big great but - even if the thing is unscientific, why toss it in the bin? It's fantasy! It's fiction! It should, of course, be clear that it's made up and not real, but I guess it IS quite clear :-D

    (*) I don't like some aspects in it, either. This didn't stop me from enjoying the books. It only made me pay attention when *I* started to make up *my* fantasy worlds.
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  8. #158

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    I think Dawkins has steadily gotten more and more onary and screwy to be honest, I can detect the same sort of thing in Bertrand Russell's writing too.

    I remember when I first discovered or heard about Dawkins, I didnt agree with his perspective as I understood it but couldnt say that I had any dislike for him, I thought he was getting the raw deal from the massed ranks of his opposition and it was also a time when the US was pretty much portrayed as an imposingly southern baptist Jesusland (I cant say how closely it conformed to that notion).

    As time has gone on I'm less inclined to think of him as the beligered school teacher in that black and white movie with Jimmy Stewart where a town tries to prohibit teaching Darwin's conclusions and more inclined to think of him as a toxic mirror of his equally toxic opposition.

    I hate his meme theory and I hate the pseudo-science memetics, its about as valid in my mind as Soviet psychology which branded doubters of dialectical materialism's producing Stalinism as insane. Pretty much what Dawkins hates is a contaminant prejudicial to human welfare and everything else isnt.

    You could as easily turn the argument on its head or give credience to the mad utterings which suggest that any and all ideas producing doubt in God or an afterlife are the work of the devil.

    It doesnt surprise me that Harry Potter is being condemned now because despite the early hostility (in some cases continued hostility) from US evangelists because of the superficial featuring of magic and witchcraft (please the same people condemn Star Wars and its only by a sumersault of logic that they dont condemn Narnia and Tolkein too) its now favourite reading matter among religious and Christians, treated like allegory.

  9. #159
    Oberon
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    Hmm. This seems to me very much akin to disliking a piece of writing because it does not support Islam.

  10. #160
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    I can't take much of what Dawkins says seriously since I am too repelled by his arrogance to be properly able to consider what he has to say. I have two friends who've met him in person and who have no intention of meeting him again. The first friend is a Christian who interviewed him for the BBC and found it hard to have a proper conversation with him, the second friend is an atheist who was very excited to win a meeting with Richard Dawkins since he is one of his personal heros. During the meeting Dawkins ignored my friend and instead typed on his mobile phone and when my friend asked him to sign a copy of Darwin's "On the origin of species" Dawkins refused because he hadn't written the introduction to this particular edition. I mean seriously, behave less like an asshole and it might actually help you to get your message across.

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