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  1. #141
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Victor:
    C'mon me old Perguy. You started off as an atheist. You are just afraid you will slip back - what the Protestants call, "a back-slider".

    The truth is that almost everyone in the world inherits their religion. The number that convert is miniscule and insignificant.

    We take in our religious belief, we take in our religious identity, with our mother's milk.

    So our religion is beyond argument - we just take it for granted - just as we take our mother for granted.

    But you're a kind of motherless child. Constantly querulous, constantly fretting, worried that mother will go away.

    But she's been here for two thousand years and is quite likely to stay.

    But what would Catholic Apologetics be without converts like you and Cardinal Newman?

  2. #142
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Why does Richard Dawkins say something totally stupid like twice a year? He seems like an otherwise-intelligent man, but he is really hung up on theism and perceived anti-scientific things.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Why does Richard Dawkins say something totally stupid like twice a year? He seems like an otherwise-intelligent man, but he is really hung up on theism and perceived anti-scientific things.
    Well, he is rational and religion is irrational.

    And we are born irrational and are given our religion before we reach the age of reason.

    So it is an interesting problem to accommodate the irrational with the rational.

    Richard is impatient with the irrational. He is impatient with the childhood of humanity.

    He wants us to grow up but every generation passes through childhood.

    And childhood has its charms. It is open to belief, magic and the imagination. You might say, it forms the basis of our culture.

    Richard is rather a charming child who has discovered the rational world and he wants to tell us about it. Santa he tells us, breathlessly, doesn't exist.

    This is sure to upset the younger children.

    And in a way, it's quite naughty.

    So Richard is somewhat of a naughty boy. Just look at his smile, look at the way he carries himself - he looks just like a naughty boy enjoying himself.

    And when all is said and done, he is not the Messiah, just a naughty boy.

  4. #144
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I nominate this as an addition to the MBTIc emoticon collection.

  5. #145
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I don't know what article at Wikipedia you've been reading, but the actual maps there tell a very different story - especially in regards to Italy and Greece:
    [[/img]
    There's already considerable discussion about Europe moving into a "post-secular" in which religion plays a far more important part in daily life. Numerous factors are contributing to this.
    I will admit the mistake in writing italy and greece.

    But here is more of what I meant (and to me, agnosticism is good enough proof that the sky will not fall):

    France: 32% declared themselves atheists, and an additional 32% declared themselves agnostic.
    Total infidels: 64%

    Britain: in the United Kingdom, a poll in 2004 by the BBC put the number of people who do not believe in a God to be 40%, while a YouGov poll in the same year put the percentage of non-believers at 35% with 21% uncertain.[15] In the YouGov poll men were less likely to believe in a god than women and younger people were less likely to believe in a god than older people.
    Total infidels: 56%

    Norway: A 2006 survey in the Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten (on February 17), saw 1,006 inhabitants of Norway answering the question "What do you believe in?". 29% answered "I believe in a god or deity", 23% answered "I believe in a higher power without being certain of what", 26% answered "I don't believe in God or higher powers", and 22% answered "I am in doubt". Still, some 85% of the population are members of the Norwegian state's official Lutheran Protestant church. Part of this deviance is because Norwegians are signed into this church at birth, and that signing out, if they are even aware of being signed in, is a time-consuming, bureaucratic affair yielding no immediate gains.
    Total infidels: 48%

    Sweden: 80% of Swedes do not believe in God

    Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Im sure you can find studies that disagree with me. The point is though, in a world where survey results like these are common, the sky won't fall just because a society isnt religious.

  6. #146
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    B] I'm defending what I see as important - the ability to voice opinions in a measured way without a ton of false arguments and personal attacks getting in the way.

    So, I'm defending what he said because it was a measured approach, which deserves to be respected for what it is.[/B]
    Ah, so you were trying to play devil's advocate, I see.

    I really don't think the foundations of human free speech and reason are going to come crashing down because certain people on this thread are for various reasons unimpressed with Dawkins, however. You seem to be viewing his statements here as being without a broader context (Dawkins has a long history of getting the partially informed masses to accept his polemical speculation as established scientific fact, as you would know if you had lived in Britain for the last ten years, where people who don't even know who Dawkins IS are parroting his conclusions every day, because they've heard them so often). You also appear to be assuming that those who are making statements critical of Dawkins are doing so because they are gullible enough to take sides with the journalist, who as I said clearly earlier, obviously had an axe to grind. I would have thought the other people posting here can see this as well as I can.

    Do you really think Dawkins is recieving criticism here because the other people posting are unable to think in a critical manner? If so, I would suggest that you were better off re-examining the subjective basis of your own reasoning than continuing down this path.

  7. #147
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Why does Richard Dawkins say something totally stupid like twice a year? He seems like an otherwise-intelligent man, but he is really hung up on theism and perceived anti-scientific things.
    Maybe this will help make it clearer:

    1) From Dawkins' own website

    The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science presents a DVD collection of 9 speakers from the Atheist Alliance International 2007 Convention (AtheistAlliance.org) held in Washington, D.C.
    2) Dawkins' Wikipedia entry

    Since 2003, the Atheist Alliance International has awarded a prize during its annual conference, honoring an outstanding atheist whose work has done most to raise public awareness of atheism during that year. It is known as the Richard Dawkins Award, in honor of Dawkins' own work.
    Not that I'm saying he might have an agenda here, or anything...

  8. #148
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Do you really think Dawkins is recieving criticism here because the other people posting are unable to think in a critical manner? If so, I would suggest that you were better off re-examining the subjective basis of your own reasoning than continuing down this path.
    My suggestion, in return, is to reread the article again without knowing who wrote it. The journalist did a hatchet job on what Dawkin's said in the opinion piece. The OP and the title of the thread followed this pattern. Then personal attacks where thrown at him and not what he said. I am also not playing devil's advocate, beyond saying "who knows". As far as my bias goes, I doubt it runs in the manner you are thinking. An over-bias towards this kind of work, perhaps, I'll grant you.

  9. #149
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=ptgatsby;407802]My suggestion, in return, is to reread the article again without knowing who wrote it. The journalist did a hatchet job on what Dawkin's said in the opinion piece. The OP and the title of the thread followed this pattern. QUOTE]

    I don't care who wrote it, as I've never heard of him. Journalists are paid to have opinions; I don't take them too seriously whether they're saying something I agree or disagree with. I am furthermore very well aware of the fact that the journalist had his own agenda, so I really don't know why you're telling me this when I have already stated so at least twice:

    with the journalist, who as I said clearly earlier, obviously had an axe to grind
    And in this case, it really would not matter whether or not the journalist had an axe to grind with him and used this particular statement to lead in to a full-blown attack on Dawkins.
    As far as my bias goes, I doubt it runs in the manner you are thinking. An over-bias towards this kind of work, perhaps, I'll grant you
    To be quite frank, that was precisely the manner I was thinking. Despite your previous denial that you were defending Dawkins. That was why I made the suggestion about the re-examining the subjective basis of your own reasoning.

  10. #150
    Senior Member Nillerz's Avatar
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    Seems to me like he's not making any assumptions toward that theory at all and simply thinks it needs to be researched.

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