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  1. #131
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    You don't? Maybe you should read it again, most of the posters have in fact disagreed with his point.
    He didn't make a point - he was speculating. And of that speculation, people tended to agree that maybe it was possible, but maybe the cost was too high to do anything about it. It had nothing to do with what he actually said.

  2. #132
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Debating with you is fun:

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I do not care about Dawkin's the man. His point is his point, and I don't see anyone disagreeing with it, or able to.
    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    He didn't make a point - he was speculating. And of that speculation, people tended to agree that maybe it was possible, but maybe the cost was too high to do anything about it. It had nothing to do with what he actually said.
    And no such thing was agreed. If you are going to summarize, do so accurately, please.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #133
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Debating with you is fun:
    Debate...?

    And no such thing was agreed. If you are going to summarize, do so accurately, please.
    Bleh. His "point" was his speculation - that there might be a connection. People in this thread tended to agree there could be a connection (ie: "the assumed point"). The main "disagreement" was that even if this was true, it would still be of benefit to society, which is relevent, but since Dawkins made no comment on if it was or wasn't, wasn't really directed against him.

    The rest attacked him with various personal views... you know, like yours:

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Dawkins is a crazy, irrational fool.

    INFJ.

  4. #134
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^ Flattered, but you needn't quote me in your sig.

    I agree, he didn't provide an argument to support his suppositions, but he still made a point - he just didn't make it well.

    That happens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #135
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ptgatsby
    People in this thread tended to agree there could be a connection (ie: "the assumed point").
    Not in this case:
    Originally posted by ragashree
    I don't see how reading something that is not explicitly connected with the use of logic can have much effect either way, unless it actively promotes the use of actual illogic and the reader internalises this viewpoint.
    I was moreover actually attempting to agree with one of your previous comments. There is an implied contradiction here with what you say afterwards:

    Originally Posted by ptgatsby
    but given that most of humanity is non-critical no matter what, it seems silly to think that additional reading, no matter what the topic, would be the root cause.
    If you actually believe that, why on earth are you spending so much time appearing to defend Dawkins' comments? Or were you actually attempting to make a completely different point, which has escaped me

  6. #136
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    If you actually believe that, why on earth are you spending so much time appearing to defend Dawkins' comments? Or were you actually attempting to make a completely different point, which has escaped me
    The bottom line is... "what comments" did he make that I'm trying to defend? He didn't really make a claim at all... it was speculation, and a very measured "maybe, I could see how it might have an influence, but I won't know until research is done". I'm defending what I see as important - the ability to voice opinions in a measured way without a ton of false arguments and personal attacks getting in the way.

    So, I'm defending what he said because it was a measured approach, which deserves to be respected for what it is. Being critical of his opinion is one thing, but this isn't even his opinion... And being critical of him is even farther from the possibility he did mention.

    Besides which, my disagreement with his speculation is weak because he has no reason to believe it and I have no reason to disbelieve it. But my agreement on his method is strong - speculate, sure, but claim nothing until it is objectively validated.

    edit: I should mention that I don't disagree strongly because I worked backwards on the probability of it happening. Give, say, all young girls only romance novels, and I'm next to positive that it will have an effect on relationships. Give all young girls books romancing war, and I'm next to positive that it will have an effect on their attitudes. Is it net negative, though? I doubt it. Only that the influence seems very likely. I simply disagree that it can carry through to irrationality to any meaningful way.

  7. #137
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    However, I'll play along:
    less culturally stable? what utter bullshit. in case you haven't noticed, it takes 30 seconds to go to wiki and see that most of Europe has rates of agnosticism around 40% or higher. some countries (like italy, greece etc) have pretty damn high levels of agnosticism.
    I don't know what article at Wikipedia you've been reading, but the actual maps there tell a very different story - especially in regards to Italy and Greece:


    Their societies have not fallen. The sky will not fall without Religion
    There's already considerable discussion about Europe moving into a "post-secular" in which religion plays a far more important part in daily life. Numerous factors are contributing to this.

  8. #138
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    The problem with Richard Dawkins is that he is right.

    He is rational, knowledgeable and well intentioned.

    The problem is with us - we are irrational, ignorant and vulgar.

    Richard comes from the Age of Literacy, Learning and Science, while we come from the Television Age.

    We identify with Sarah Palin and Richard is not one of us - and just like Sarah, we don't even bother to read his books.

    We instinctively know he not one of the herd - our herd.

    He is not even vulgar and TV has not dumbed him down.

    What's wrong with him?

  9. #139
    Sniffles
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    Victor:

  10. #140
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Victor:
    Ouch..lol
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