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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    Guess I never noticed since all my friends are above average...
    "Above average" is a commonly used concept to persuade in relation to authority. I think people of "above average" intelligence are the most dangerous of all, to be frank. People of nearly undefinably high intelligence aren't usually dangerous to reason and how it relates to society. Nor are the "below average."

  2. #102
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    "Above average" is a commonly used concept to persuade in relation to authority. I think people of "above average" intelligence are the most dangerous of all, to be frank. People of nearly undefinably high intelligence aren't usually dangerous to reason and how it relates to society. Nor are the "below average."
    Guess I should have said that MENSA sent limos for us...
    edcoaching

  3. #103
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Then religious belief lacks direction, and force, and is less dangerous to the atheist.
    All I can say is that Dawkins's threat perception must be on overdrive if he considers a force as spent as the Church of England enough of a threat to his liberty or personal integrity that he needs to spew out the constant stream of invenctive against religion or in general. Maybe he has some unresolved childhood issues, perhaps with a particular representative of the clergy...

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    Guess I should have said that MENSA sent limos for us...
    Mensa claims to let in the top 2%. The divergence in the top 2%...I don't know the IQ figures, but isn't it close to equal to standard deviation?
    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    All I can say is that Dawkins's threat perception must be on overdrive if he considers a force as spent as the Church of England enough of a threat to his liberty or personal integrity that he needs to spew out the constant stream of invenctive against religion or in general. Maybe he has some unresolved childhood issues, perhaps with a particular representative of the clergy...
    He does see it as a threat, whether justified or not. He's not prejudiced though, he sees Islam as a serious threat as well, and a more direct one if my perception is correct.

  5. #105
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    "Above average" is a commonly used concept to persuade in relation to authority. I think people of "above average" intelligence are the most dangerous of all, to be frank. People of nearly undefinably high intelligence aren't usually dangerous to reason and how it relates to society. Nor are the "below average."
    I concurr

  6. #106
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Maybe, though I think saying something that makes him look like a prize idiot and reduces his credibility to almost everyone except diehard followers is nevertheless a bigger one.
    Yah. It sucks when reporters generate such sensationalist stuff out of an anthill. *shrug*

    That'll teach him to make a reasoned opinion on the possibility of something that might maybe have an effect. He'll definitely never again claim that the possibility is there but would require research to validate it.

  7. #107
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Yah. It sucks when reporters generate such sensationalist stuff out of an anthill. *shrug*

    That'll teach him to make a reasoned opinion on the possibility of something that might maybe have an effect. He'll definitely never again claim that the possibility is there but would require research to validate it.
    Well, it might just be worth considering, purely hypothetically, that perhaps, just perhaps, Dawkins made a statement that might potentially indicate that he had the mindset of an overly pedantic, out of touch, presumptuous buffoon. And in this case, it really would not matter whether or not the journalist had an axe to grind with him and used this particular statement to lead in to a full-blown attack on Dawkins. Whether or not a person is being wise or foolish when they choose to criticise fairy stories on the basis of their rationality and logic is a matter that should perhaps be judged separately from whether someone else has a problem with that person. I think perhaps it might be worth researching why myth and fantasy exist and are still an important component of human consciousness.

  8. #108
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Well, it might just be worth considering, purely hypothetically, that perhaps, just perhaps, Dawkins made a statement that might potentially indicate that he had the mindset of an overly pedantic, out of touch, presumptuous buffoon. And in this case, it really would not matter whether or not the journalist had an axe to grind with him and used this particular statement to lead in to a full-blown attack on Dawkins. Whether or not a person is being wise or foolish when they choose to criticise fairy stories on the basis of their rationality and logic is a matter that should perhaps be judged separately from whether someone else has a problem with that person. I think perhaps it might be worth researching why myth and fantasy exist and are still an important component of human consciousness.
    I didn't realise that it was wise to judge people on hypothetical opinions of what they might have meant over depending on a biased article that self-contradicts his quotes with the journalist's opinion.

    Of course, I think he does believe that the general use of fantasy and myth is negative, if it encourages people to not be critical with what they read. Kind of like people should be with the article. The article is a knee-jerk reaction to an overstatement made by the journalist to him expanding on the concept that fantasy and encouraging myth causes people to be non-critical of myths that they would act on. Not exactly a stretch by any means, yet he measures his words carefully because he doesn't actually know. You know, a reasoned response.

    I don't think it relates strongly, personally. But I have no valid reason to disagree or agree. If there is an effect, there is an effect... but given that most of humanity is non-critical no matter what, it seems silly to think that additional reading, no matter what the topic, would be the root cause. IOW, it's people inability to be critical (such as mentioned earlier, like Dawkin's view of religion and myth) period, and not surprisingly, those people can read. But at the same time, I fail to see how encouraging people to read 'myth' simply couldn't lead to people acting out based on myth.

  9. #109
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawkins
    "Whether that has a pernicious effect, I don't know," the 67-year-old British writer said. "Looking back to my own childhood, the fact that so many of the stories I read allowed the possibility of frogs turning into princes, whether that has a sort of insidious effect on rationality, I'm not sure. Perhaps it's something for research." Dawkins
    It's worth noting that Dawkins does not draw a conclusion on the matter, although his comments imply that he doesn't have an immediate appreciation or understanding of the role that non-scientific thought processes might play.

    The underlying issue here is one of context. If you are doing scientific research, collecting data, and attempting to measure accurately, then it's not such a great idea to to let your imagination go wild. On the other hand, the development of imagination and creativity allows the mind to explore the world in metaphor and abstraction. When it comes to different cognitive processes it comes down to a question of using the best tool for the particular task. Rationality is not harmed if there remains the ability to understand the distinction between abstractions of subjective experience and methods for exploring objective, concrete reality.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #110
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    but given that most of humanity is non-critical no matter what, it seems silly to think that additional reading, no matter what the topic, would be the root cause.
    I tend to agree. I don't see how reading something that is not explicitly connected with the use of logic can have much effect either way, unless it actively promotes the use of actual illogic and the reader internalises this viewpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    But at the same time, I fail to see how encouraging people to read 'myth' simply couldn't lead to people acting out based on myth.
    I wasn't sure what this means. Do you mean that the reading of myths is very likely to cause people to behave in a similar way to the characters contained therein?

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