Are you a materialist or a dualist?

[Oberon]

Materialist, believing that dualism can exist in waves and/or particles we simple can't register at this time.

So basicly, I'm a materialist admitting we don't know everything.

Yep... which still involves taking a lot of stuff on faith.

 

[EcK]

the wave / particle aspect of matter isn't dual. dummie.

 

[Oberon]

the wave / particle aspect of matter isn't dual. dummie.

Okay, but waves require media. Ocean waves require, you know, an ocean.

What's the medium for EM waves?

 

[EcK]

Okay, but waves require media. Ocean waves require, you know, an ocean.

What's the medium for EM waves?

Actually, in quantum theory, they don't.

 

[Oberon]

Actually, in quantum theory, they don't.

You are correct... and you accept quantum theory on faith.

QED.

 

[Katsuni]

Matter and energy are different forms of the same thing. Any supernatural power would still be a form of energy, though perhaps in a form we may not recognize, or subject to additional contextual stimuli we may not be capable of percieving. As such, I guess I'm probably a materialist, as I would believe anything, including God himself, if such exists, to be comprised of matter or energy of some form or another.

I also believe that the mind, is a combonation of latent DNA, pre-made cellular structures, chemical balances, and growth of neurons from experience. All of these aspects are physical in nature and are fully capable of explaining every aspect of the mind including the soul, though I do still hold a theory on the concept of a spiritual energy source which we just haven't been able to identify / measure yet, similar to gravity, that too would likely be a form of matter.

Then again... gravity gives me pause. It generates an infinite amount of energy as it never diminishes with time, and no physical aspect of the matter is reduced in its' process of creating a gravitational field. We can't find any evidence that there's any kind of field or wave as such, nor anything even remotely resembling energy... yet it clearly exists. As it is infinite in its' creation of gravity, one may surmise that it may not actually exist as a form of matter nor energy...

That fact gives me far more pause than the concept of god or thought, souls, or anything else.

 

[Nonsensical]

I feel the energy movin' all up inside of this thread.

Of course I believe in Dualism, ya'll know me by now..

 

[EcK]

You are correct... and you accept quantum theory on faith.

QED.

see, i knew u'd say that (not because i'm an infj but it was just self evident.

You take your own perception of macroscale phenomenas as evident. That's worst and I thought it'd be a good way to point it out.

+I worked out everytheory i talk about by myself on the most part rather than just read it and spill it out so that's like saying 'Ti' is based on internalised values

carry on child.

 

[erm]

Matter is mostly empty space between subatomic particles with Alice-in-Wonderland properties that can’t be separated from the observer. So what exactly does a materialist believe in?

This is what I was thinking.

The gap between Materialism and Dualism is non-existent as well.

If one thinks that mind and matter are separate entities but correlated (Dualism), or that matter causes the mind (Materialism), there really isn't a difference. Same with Idealism, which is Materialism with reverse causation (mind causes matter).

All of them accept the existence of mind and matter, and saying that the ball moved because the rock hit it, is the same as a saying the rock hit it because the ball moved. How you describe the causation doesn't change the correlation. Correlation is the reality, causation is the made up part (to help human understanding).

There would be a slight difference between Idealism and Materialism since Idealism would claim without the mind, matter does not exist. But how would one go about proving that? Same with the opposite, of matter causing the mind. How does one go about proving the mind dies when matter shifts? Either one has to presuppose that matter causes mind to prove that the mind has died, since all one will witness is matter (e.g when killing someone). Thus begging the question and not proof at all. Or one uses oneself as a test subject, which leads to earlier problem of proving Idealism, that if you kill your own mind you end up with no proof that matter has not vanished as well.

My conclusion: Materialism, Dualism and Idealism all describe the same Universe. They are three different ways of saying the same thing.

 

[murkrow]

I'm an Idealist

hahaha!

no, really.

 

[Jaguar]

I believe in Quality.

Dig that.

 

[MyIsland]

I love this thread, I personally chose "dualist", but was indecisive. I just can't deny the fact that my human eyes and mind are narrowed in scope only allowing me to see the visible dimensions (implying there might be other things visible to another "eye"). I hope I make sense.

 

[EcK]

I love this thread, I personally chose "dualist", but was indecisive. I just can't deny the fact that my human eyes and mind are narrowed in scope only allowing me to see the visible dimensions (implying there might be other things visible to another "eye"). I hope I make sense.

Not really no.

 

[MyIsland]

Figured...

 

[EcK]

Figured...

I was teasing new guy!

Yeah I get it, I mean I could argue the particulars but hey, that's just me.
In the case of non interaction between types of expression of energy, that has already been documented and is what seem to be going on at a larger scale between 'our matter' and dark matter for example. Interaction between wave functions of matter create the discrete aspect of the universe we instinctively consider to be 'the only one' because of evolutionary imperatives. But you don't need a dualistic system to explain different sets of rules as long as they were connected at one time, so, causally continuous: then they're part of the same universe. And explaining it via a dual system is just adding useless complexity, generally for ideological purposes. <See occam's razor>

Also if there's no interaction, then its just irrelevant, the one doesn't exist to the other as existence comes from interference. -descartes dualism is lame that way btw-

 

[EcK]

I think meta cognition simply biases us toward a natural distinction between the mind and the body, so if a guy comes in and give a theory of it, we want to believe it, no matter how bad the arguments, and 'believe me', study some Descartes for example.
I'm not saying the guy wasn't a math wizz, but as a philosopher he was simply idiotic to the point of comedy.

 

[Son of the Damned]

The universe is a fantastically strange place, and I hold no delusion of holding the secrets to its inner workings, but I have a strong hunch that all is material at its core.

 

[Chunes]

Neither, the way they've been worded.

My main beef being the unbelievably inept assumption that souls, spirits, and the like can't exist under materialism, or that higher realms of existence aren't physical.

They're the same thing; most people just don't seem to realize it. Matter itself is dualistic in nature, creating all sorts of veiled 'metaphysical' realms that really are physical.