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View Poll Results: Which one best represents your view?

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  • Materialism

    25 52.08%
  • Dualism

    23 47.92%
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Results 61 to 70 of 98

  1. #61
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default Sin and Redemption - Pygmalion and Galatea

    There are a number of sins you can commit with metaphors and one of them is literalism.

    To take a metaphor literally is a sin - but worse it leads into absurdity.

    And we have caught a sinner in the full flush of her sin - taking the soul literally.

    But why should we be surprised?

    MBTI commits exactly the same sin - MBTI takes the personality literally.

    MBTI is based on the sin of literalism.

    And the wages of sin are that you will be turned to stone.

    And this is precisely what MBTI does, it takes the personality literally - it treats the personality as as thing - it turns the personality to stone.

    MBTI reifies the personality.

    But just as Pygmalion brought his statue, Galatea, to life by falling in love with her, we can bring our personalities to life by falling in love with one another.

  2. #62
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I'd like to what you all think on the subject and where you stand.
    I am neither a materialist nor dualist.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    I am neither a materialist nor dualist.
    same.


    and I can't stand when people view the history of philosophy as an assortment at a candy shop. It is not there for you to pick one, it's there to understand the history of philosophy.

    Do you prefer the abacus or the sundial?
    I don't wanna!

  4. #64
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    same.


    and I can't stand when people view the history of philosophy as an assortment at a candy shop. It is not there for you to pick one, it's there to understand the history of philosophy.
    Don't be silly! Philosophy is a candy shop.

    Half the fun is buying an irresistible piece of candy, slowly eating it and digesting it. Then becoming disillusioned and moving onto the next piece of candy.

    There is nothing to understand in philosophy - only illusion and disillusion.

    Those who sell understanding in philosophy are not doing the dance of philosophy - they are simply gurus looking for their sannyasins.

    MBTI is the perfect example - the guru Jung has found his disciples here.

    Don't think for a moment Jung was a philosopher - he was a fascist guru and here are his followers.

    Philosophers don't need followers because they teach you to think for yourself - as each idea is a piece of candy to put to sleep the watchdog of your mind.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Kyrielle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Philosophers don't need followers because they teach you to think for yourself - as each idea is a piece of candy to put to sleep the watchdog of your mind.
    I find that thought unusually profound. Thank you.

    For the purposes of the thread:

    I think I recognise my thoughts most in neutral monism, but it's not quite how I would describe my thoughts. But it is closeish.
    "I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference."

    Robert Frost

  6. #66
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    I am neither a materialist nor dualist.
    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    same.


    and I can't stand when people view the history of philosophy as an assortment at a candy shop. It is not there for you to pick one, it's there to understand the history of philosophy.

    Do you prefer the abacus or the sundial?
    Maybe one of you two could explain how you are neither? Do you simply have no opinion on the issue?

    Say something! Use words.

  7. #67
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Long story short: as a Catholic, I cant be a materialist since it denies the metaphysical(or at least the value of it). Dualism, at least as you explained it, seems to assume a contarian relation between the material and the immaterial. I don't agree with that.
    i dont mean this in a mocking way:

    so do you like believe in goditrons?

    I would think that anyone who believes in souls would have to be a dualist by definition (unless they believed souls were collection of some unknown particles)

    Quote Originally Posted by reason
    I am neither a materialist nor dualist.
    Im not sure where the false dichotomy lies. What other option is there? it seems that there would be two options:

    1. material world and nothing else
    2. material world and magic

    (im aware that I may be blatantly applying my own paraphrasing and may be distorting the true definitions)

    unless you're just claiming agnosticism on the subject?

  8. #68
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    I'm basically a materialist. That's why literal belief in god and souls is tough for me.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  9. #69
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    I'm basically a materialist. That's why literal belief in god and souls is tough for me.
    A literal belief in god and the soul are tough for anyone not in a trance where the critical faculty is asleep.

    However with the critical faculty asleep, it is possible to believe in anything. And the proof is that people do believe in anything.

    Rather, it is that god and the soul are metaphors, so they are neither material nor literally true.

    Except in a deep religious trance where the critical faculty and the sense of reality, are turned off.

    So you might say that deep religious belief is actually the suspension of disbelief.

    And belief and disbelief play off each other in the real world.

    Belief and disbelief are engaged in a delicate dance.

    Just as the believers and the unbelievers are dancing with one another in print on this page in front of us.

    God bless their cotton socks.

  10. #70
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    A literal belief in god and the soul are tough for anyone not in a trance where the critical faculty is asleep.

    However with the critical faculty asleep, it is possible to believe in anything. And the proof is that people do believe in anything.

    Rather, it is that god and the soul are metaphors, so they are neither material nor literally true.

    Except in a deep religious trance where the critical faculty and the sense of reality, are turned off.

    So you might say that deep religious belief is actually the suspension of disbelief.

    And belief and disbelief play off each other in the real world.

    Belief and disbelief are engaged in a delicate dance.

    Just as the believers and the unbelievers are dancing with one another in print on this page in front of us.

    God bless their cotton socks.
    to relate it back to MBTI... an INFJ trance?
    looking back on my one year stint in fundamentalist christiandom, it had a very Fe feel to it, and I can only assume that all of this writing came from some Ni trance 1000's of years ago...





    edit: ok I now see the false dichotomy

    the opposite of dualism is monism. Monism does not necessarily equal materialism:
    Monism in philosophy can be defined according to three kinds:

    1. Idealism, phenomenalism, or mentalistic monism which holds that only mind is real.
    2. Neutral monism, which holds that both the mental and the physical can be reduced to some sort of third substance, or energy.
    3. Physicalism or materialism, which holds that only the physical is real, and that the mental can be reduced to the physical.
    the correct dichotomies would be:
    -monism and dualism (which still wouldn't be a perfect dichotomy, due to various versions)
    -materialism and idealism
    Last edited by Venom; 11-10-2008 at 03:08 PM.

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