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  1. #41
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    I prefer to analyse things with as many preconceived notions are possible, because it makes my ideas so much more difficult to stand by...
    It is more difficult to stand by your ideas when you have no ideas in mind than when you have many ideas?

    Just like it is more difficult to stand by your apples when you have no apples, rather than when you have many? For instance, we get attached to our material possessions and do not want to give them away, same goes for our preconceived notions. If we did not value our material possessions we would not mind giving them away. Obviously when we have no material possessions, we have nothing to value, thus there is simply nothing for us to cling to.

    For this reason a most open-minded examination is most easily conducted when we have as few ideas as possible that we would be reluctant to renounce.


    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Anyway, someone can analyse ideas even though they do not think that any idea is true; postmodernists do it frequently..
    How would that work?

    For example, if I were to make an argument as follows. If A then B. A. Therefore B.

    If the premises are true, the conclusion must also be. This is a requirement of any valid argument, I am certainly curious about how it is possible to analyze something without being led to believe that this or that thing is true in the end. Reasonableness requires you to believe an argument which you cannot declare invalid or in which you could point out the falsity of the premises. Of course though, you can declare yourself unreasonable and believe in anything you want! Your remark regarding that postmodernists do so is quite pertinent on that note!

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    I think you missed the point..
    I am not sure what the point was, was the point that objective knowledge is not as easily acquired as I seem to think? If so, how so? If not, what was the point?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  2. #42
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Knowlege is useful if you're selected as a contestant on Jeopardy!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #43
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    Oh so the knowledge of how to perform a quadruple bypass surgery is useless and unnecessary? The truths of x, y, and z in regards to what would be needed to fix the heart are worthless? Maybe, in a 1 out of 1 million chance, a random person miraculously performs the quadruple bypass surgery without knowledge of the truths, but the chance that he could perform it again on another patient are still staggeringly low without the preferred knowledge.

  4. #44
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    Oh so the knowledge of how to perform a quadruple bypass surgery is useless and unnecessary?
    Precisely. What matters is that a surgeon can perform quadruple bypass surgery successfully. Knowing how perform quadruple bypass surgery doesn't do anything extra. It's superfluous.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I think knowing one's self well may be the most practical study anyone could do.

    Lotsa good stuff you can't learn in a book, for sure.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Precisely. What matters is that a surgeon can perform quadruple bypass surgery successfully. Knowing how perform quadruple bypass surgery doesn't do anything extra. It's superfluous.
    Yes, in the event that a random person performs a quadruple bypass surgery, it is demonstrated that the knowledge of how to do so is unnecessary. Problem is: We'll have a lot less surgeons if the knowledge was not out there. The probability of such an event is too unlikely to rely upon. The knowledge of how to so the surgery increases to probability of success, which is technically unnecessary, but always preferable.

  7. #47
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Precisely. What matters is that a surgeon can perform quadruple bypass surgery successfully. Knowing how perform quadruple bypass surgery doesn't do anything extra. It's superfluous.
    lolwut?



    Knowing the procedural steps in performing quadruple bypass surgery is the furthest thing from being superfluous, rather knowledge of these steps prove to be the principle means that separate (and qualify) a heart surgeon from a layman like me.

    I haven't read this thread so I am unsure if you defined what uselessness means/entails, but if you are trying to say that "cognitive" knowledge has no pragmatic physical use, then you are just, well, being ignorant, sorry.

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  8. #48
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    Knowledge is power; the more I know about you, the more power I have over you.

  9. #49
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    ^ You give me the creeps.

  10. #50
    Wild Card Atomic Fiend's Avatar
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