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Thread: Meditation

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I won't put words in your mouth, if you won't put words in mine, Victor.
    I can't promise Journey. I find that when I get to know someone, I can imitate them very easily. So who knows, there might be two Journeys here before long.

    And don't be so quick to ask, as I write some pretty good dialogue.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    The risks outweigh the benefits to me.
    There is a risk. So it is very important to know what the risk is. And when you know, it is easy to minimise the risk.

    Also perhaps you are not aware but there is a world wide movement of Christian meditation. I have met them on one or two occasions and they seem to me to be of a high quality.

    Perhaps you might like to join your fellow Christian meditators.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    Well, the risks are present during the meditation session. But during the session, you're usually not exposed to any external stimuli either. What exactly are the risks? Also, there's highway hypnosis, where you drive from point A to point B but don't remember much in between .
    Dissociation is not an emptying of the mind, it is simply not being aware of what the mind is engaged in at the time. For proof of this, you really were engaged in steering the car, whether you were aware of it or not. Totally different from an emptying of the mind. (More serious cases of dissociation are considered a disorder or disease state by the DSM IV.)
    "My Journey is my Destination."

    "Today Counts Forever." R.C. Sproul

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Dissociation is not an emptying of the mind, it is simply not being aware of what the mind is engaged in at the time. For proof of this, you really were engaged in steering the car, whether you were aware of it or not. Totally different from an emptying of the mind. (More serious cases of dissociation are considered a disorder or disease state by the DSM IV.)
    Surely you are not suggesting that meditation is a disease or or a disorder.

    Meditation is intrinsic to many religions including Christianity.

    And today meditation is also practised outside of a religious context.

    And of course like anything else, meditation has a good side and a bad side.

    It seems to me that you are cutting yourself off from your own tradition of Christian meditation.

    And it seems to me that you are doing it in a kind of panic.

    So meditation for you might be the movement between panic and calm.

  5. #15
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    Meditation is essentially about movement - and of course, inner movement.

    It is about moving from thought to no thought and back again. And it is also about moving between emotions.

    If you try to watch your thoughts or emotions as an independent observer, you are not meditating.

    God can watch your thoughts and emotions as an independent observer. And some of us want to be so good, so we want to be God - but this is a mistake.

    Thank God we can let God be God so we can be ourselves.

    And we are contingent beings. And being contingent, nothing lasts forever.

    However we can learn to hang on and let go, and hang on and let go and so on. We can learn to dance each contingent step.

    We can learn to dance between having and letting go with good grace.

    Meditation is simply good grace.

    The grace of contingent beings.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Journey's Avatar
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    Victor, I sometimes fail to follow your reasoning. Sometimes I think you are not reasoning. I told you that I meditate daily, or almost daily (nobody does anything perfectly.) It does not involve emptying my mind. And no, I don't believe that emptying the mind is a disease or disordered state (where do you get these ideas?) just that it is unwise. I find no profit in responding to you anymore.
    "My Journey is my Destination."

    "Today Counts Forever." R.C. Sproul

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Victor, I sometimes fail to follow your reasoning. Sometimes I think you are not reasoning. I told you that I meditate daily, or almost daily (nobody does anything perfectly.) It does not involve emptying my mind. And no, I don't believe that emptying the mind is a disease or disordered state (where do you get these ideas?) just that it is unwise. I find no profit in responding to you anymore.
    Of course I am not reasoning - I am trying to persuade.

    And what you are doing is not meditating - you are engaged in thinking - you think about something.

    So at best you are contemplating.

  8. #18
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    Victor, against my better judgement I will respond to you this last time.

    Were you aware that the definition of meditation IS to engage in contemplation or reflection; to focus one's thoughts on; to reflect on or to ponder over; to plan or project in the mind: INTEND , PURPOSE??

    (I do include in my meditation being aware to listen for the voice of the Holy Spirit which I cannot explain to you.)

    Types of meditation that empty the mind are whole other things than regular meditation. If one of those are what you are talking about you should be more specific as to the type of meditation you are talking about.

    I have been clear about the type of meditation that I do. My only intent here was to caution about the emptying of the mind, that it was unwise. I have done that three times now. I am throroughly finished here.
    "My Journey is my Destination."

    "Today Counts Forever." R.C. Sproul

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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Victor, against my better judgement I will respond to you this last time.

    Were you aware that the definition of meditation IS to engage in contemplation or reflection; to focus one's thoughts on; to reflect on or to ponder over; to plan or project in the mind: INTEND , PURPOSE??

    (I do include in my meditation being aware to listen for the voice of the Holy Spirit which I cannot explain to you.)

    Types of meditation that empty the mind are whole other things than regular meditation. If one of those are what you are talking about you should be more specific as to the type of meditation you are talking about.

    I have been clear about the type of meditation that I do. My only intent here was to caution about the emptying of the mind, that it was unwise. I have done that three times now. I am throroughly finished here.
    I take my cue from, "The Cloud of Unknowing", by Anonymous.

    It does take courage for we are all afraid of the unknown.

    But the reward is surprise - everything comes as a surprise.

    And life becomes a surprise party.

    And naturally this is not something we can know in advance.


    You can find an Introduction at -
    The Cloud of Unknowing: Introduction

    And on Wikipedia at -
    The Cloud of Unknowing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And here is, "The Cloud of Unknowing", itself -
    The Cloud of Unknowing

    And here is, "The Cloud of Unknowing", in more modern English -
    Cloud of Unknowing | Christian Classics Ethereal Library

  10. #20
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    One last reply. I know whereof I speak. I was doing Transendental Meditation most probably before you were born, Victor. It is not something to be fooled around with (or you are a fool).
    "My Journey is my Destination."

    "Today Counts Forever." R.C. Sproul

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