User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 34

  1. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Errrm... did you read my comment in the context of the post I quoted? I guess I'm not sure what you mean by valid.

    To clarify, I was saying that philosophy that is dictated by an authority, and accepted by masses, is more likely to result in and give justification to "evil" acts. There are a number of reasons for that, which I can attempt to explain if you wish.
    My bad. I misinterpreted the context.

  2. #22
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,911

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    So if morals aren't the same for everyone, and their purpose isn't societal health, then why do they exist? Why do we feel bad? Sounds rather arbitrary.
    Oh, it depends on how we mean by purpose here. The effect of commonly accepted morals is societal health. I don't know if it is accurate to ever say that things which came from biological evolution really have a "purpose" though.

    The conscious reason that people follow morals is also usually for the health of society. That is often just false rationalization of course, but hardly anyone really wants to tell themselves that they are bad people. And there's that fear. Fear of feeling like a bad or useless person, is what you might call the sub-conscious motive. The conscious motive is to do good for the world.

    Either way, I come back to the point that the effect is improved societal, regardless of a person's rationlization.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  3. #23
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,911

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    My bad. I misinterpreted the context.
    'salright.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  4. #24
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    3,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Oh, it depends on how we mean by purpose here. The effect of commonly accepted morals is societal health. I don't know if it is accurate to ever say that things which came from biological evolution really have a "purpose" though.
    I don't know. I think that the entire idea of biological evolution is that things with a purpose stay and things without a purpose, don't. Although, you could argue that those things began as random mutations without a purpose.

    The conscious reason that people follow morals is also usually for the health of society. That is often just false rationalization of course, but hardly anyone really wants to tell themselves that they are bad people. And there's that fear. Fear of feeling like a bad or useless person, is what you might call the sub-conscious motive. The conscious motive is to do good for the world.

    Either way, I come back to the point that the effect is improved societal, regardless of a person's rationlization.
    I'm not understanding your "false rationalization" statement, really. I could admit to myself all day that I'm a bad person, but so what? What is a bad person? What makes one person bad and one person good? Is this decision not based on that person's effect on society?
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  5. #25
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Also, why does that quote leave out evil people doing good things?
    Good point.

    My ex-boss was a nasty bitch but she was a practicing Christian and I do believe that this aided her in acting nicer than she would had she not been one.

    She basically begrudgingly did the "right" things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    So if morals aren't the same for everyone, and their purpose isn't societal health, then why do they exist? Why do we feel bad? Sounds rather arbitrary.
    I do believe our moralistic tendencies/behaviors have evolved due to our being a highly social species, so yeah, in essence morality does serve to ensure societal health.

    Three sources or correlates of moral behavior:

    Empathy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Theory of mind - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Mirror neuron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #26
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,911

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I don't know. I think that the entire idea of biological evolution is that things with a purpose stay and things without a purpose, don't. Although, you could argue that those things began as random mutations without a purpose.
    I think that the word purpose implies too much intent, when evolution is a process that has no intent.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I'm not understanding your "false rationalization" statement, really. I could admit to myself all day that I'm a bad person, but so what? What is a bad person? What makes one person bad and one person good? Is this decision not based on that person's effect on society?
    To a large extent, yes. It does not have to be society, though. It could be your effect on one other person, or the physical environment. You have to have something else to effect in order for the concept of ethics to even make sense (though that's kind of obvious, since nothing would really make any sense if we no evironment to interact with). However, the fact that ethics is concerned with the effect on society, does not mean that the definition of what is right or wrong comes from an external source. A person is concerned with their effect on the rest of the world, but they are the ones that determine what effect is considered good and what is considered bad. Some people use externally created philosophies (like religion) as a vehicle for all of this, but the actually principles all come from within.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  7. #27
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    3,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Some people use externally created philosophies (like religion) as a vehicle for all of this, but the actually principles all come from within.
    We'll just have to agree to disagree, I guess. I don't see how anyone could possibly know that something is randomly generated from within. That seems ultimately useless to me. I treat society well (generally) because I want the benefits and not the punishment. And when I say society I am including the environment and each individual.

    It's an interesting perspective, and I'm not trying to insult it. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  8. #28
    ByMySword
    Guest

    Default

    Why doesn't everyone just read On the Genealogy of Morals by Nietzsche and we'll call it a day?

  9. #29
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,911

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    Why doesn't everyone just read On the Genealogy of Morals by Nietzsche and we'll call it a day?
    He was wrong about a lot of things.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  10. #30
    ByMySword
    Guest

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    He was wrong about a lot of things.
    Yeah....well, thats like.............your opinion...man.


Similar Threads

  1. How do you learn best? (survey, idea pool)
    By Little Linguist in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-25-2011, 03:11 AM
  2. [MBTItm] So, how do "we" do it?
    By GargoylesLegacy in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 10-03-2009, 10:10 AM
  3. How do we gain power over death?
    By coberst in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 08-19-2009, 03:38 PM
  4. Why do we seek moral absolutes?
    By coberst in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 08-07-2009, 02:01 PM
  5. Replies: 14
    Last Post: 01-26-2009, 07:23 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO