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  1. #11
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post


    Don't you think (asshole) people learn to *act* ethically for fear of punishment, but that they do not learn how to *be* moral, per se, but rather they learn how to be more cunning?
    How is this different from any other person?

    Morals are good because they benefit society, not because they "just are." Going against most moral values results in one of two things: punishment by the government, or social exclusion

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicPoriferan
    They fear shame and guilt, for instance. People fear their own moral judgment.
    Because they are told that these things are bad. A devout christian will feel guilty after using profanity or having premarital sex. Does everyone, though?
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  2. #12
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Because they are told that these things are bad. A devout christian will feel guilty after using profanity or having premarital sex. Does everyone, though?
    No, not everyone feels bad about that, specifically. Rest assured, though, that everyone has something they would feel bad about, and they have their own personal reason for accepting it as a reasonable guideline. People claim they are following what they are told a lot more often than they really are. Most people follow their own little personal creations, which they attribute to someone else's authority. It's something that's often sub-conscious, though.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #13
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Meta:

    But the government condones some immoral behavior!!!

    Just because a majority or an authority says something is wrong or right doesn't make it necessarily so, right?

    I believe that morals and moralistic behavior are intrinsically motivated.

    I also think that guilt is oftentimes founded, i.e. that we feel guilty when we act shitty.

    People who blindly follow a litany of moral prescriptive "truths" scare me.

    I also know that I may be projecting here, but, personally, I develop a sense of right and wrong by way of empathy.

    Also, have you ever been punished for actually doing the *right* thing?!?! I have, and that sucks. :sad:

    Moral universalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by passingby View Post
    Is religion or God really needed to know morals?
    I'm assuming you're not asking whether we believe morals would exist without religion. Some people need direction (religion or God) in their lives, whereas others absolutely resent it. This has nothing to do with intelligence either, imo. Its simply how some people are wired. Some may contemplate and follow their own ethical ideals, but the belief that their God follows a similar path gives them confidence and structure. Others don't like being told what to do/be.

    To understand religious morals, I'd think religion would be vitally important.

    Where does morality come from?
    From within.

  5. #15
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." -Steven Weinberg
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #16
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." -Steven Weinberg
    False. You don't need religion, you just need any kind of philosophy, preferably passed down from an authority and adopted by the masses. It could be religious, or political, or cultural. It doesn't really make a difference.

    Also, why does that quote leave out evil people doing good things?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by passingby View Post
    Is religion or God really needed to know morals? Where does morality come from? I'd like to know what everyone thinks
    If it comes from anywhere, its definitely not religion.

    "In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlates with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies." (Journal of Religion and Society reported in The Times, Sep 27 2005)

    Found that in this vid: [youtube=94f2h-5TvbM] Religion, Atheism, and Morality [/youtube]

    Fastforward to 4:40ish for the explanation of where morality comes from. Its not the say-all, but I agree with him and its the stance I take.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    False. You don't need religion, you just any kind of philosophy, preferably passed down from an authority and adopted by the masses. It could be religious, or political, or cultural. It doesn't really make a difference.
    *scratches head, and other things* Huh? Why does that make it valid?

  9. #19
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    *scratches head, and other things* Huh? Why does that make it valid?
    Errrm... did you read my comment in the context of the post I quoted? I guess I'm not sure what you mean by valid.

    To clarify, I was saying that philosophy that is dictated by an authority, and accepted by masses, is more likely to result in and give justification to "evil" acts. There are a number of reasons for that, which I can attempt to explain if you wish.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #20
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    No, not everyone feels bad about that, specifically. Rest assured, though, that everyone has something they would feel bad about, and they have their own personal reason for accepting it as a reasonable guideline. People claim they are following what they are told a lot more often than they really are. Most people follow their own little personal creations, which they attribute to someone else's authority. It's something that's often sub-conscious, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Meta:

    But the government condones some immoral behavior!!!

    Just because a majority or an authority says something is wrong or right doesn't make it necessarily so, right?

    I believe that morals and moralistic behavior are intrinsically motivated.

    I also think that guilt is oftentimes founded, i.e. that we feel guilty when we act shitty.

    People who blindly follow a litany of moral prescriptive "truths" scare me.

    I also know that I may be projecting here, but, personally, I develop a sense of right and wrong by way of empathy.

    Also, have you ever been punished for actually doing the *right* thing?!?! I have, and that sucks. :sad:

    Moral universalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    So if morals aren't the same for everyone, and their purpose isn't societal health, then why do they exist? Why do we feel bad? Sounds rather arbitrary.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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