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  1. #41
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raincrow007 View Post
    Oh sure, that's an obvious sort of connection -- I'm wondering more about the context in which that first manifested itself. I think the ubiquity of knives/daggers/swords in the past gave the association a little more oomph than our modern day abstractions -- I just can't quite determine the flavor of the ancient oomph, though.

    *chuckles inwardly at all this mental hamster-wheeling and layering of meanings*
    The beauty of symbolism.

    I'm still kicking around grad school, you know.
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  2. #42
    Senior Member raincrow007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivercrow View Post
    The beauty of symbolism.

    I'm still kicking around grad school, you know.
    I almost talked myself into going for a PhD in semiotics, but then I realized I had other shit to do that was somewhat more gratifying than becoming another stuffy member of academia.

    Besides, all that paperwork sucks ass.

    I'm curious -- how do you construct symbols in literature [prose, poetry, whatever]? I imagine it's an entirely different process than making a visual construct, and yet I can see it as being very similar. [For example, a similarity perhaps being the use of a recognized object as a symbol, and then deviating from the audience's expected context that the object is found in, thereby adding another layer of meaning -- or at least leaving room for reinterpretation?].

    That's the only really obvious one that I can think of that the moment, though.

  3. #43
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raincrow007 View Post
    I almost talked myself into going for a PhD in semiotics, but then I realized I had other shit to do that was somewhat more gratifying than becoming another stuffy member of academia.
    I am glad now I did not go the semiotics/semantics route. A little sad I didn't pursue Middle Eastern Art in Chicago, but the right things seem to have happened anyway.
    Besides, all that paperwork sucks ass.
    That's a major bugaboo. :eek:
    I'm curious -- how do you construct symbols in literature [prose, poetry, whatever]? I imagine it's an entirely different process than making a visual construct, and yet I can see it as being very similar. [For example, a similarity perhaps being the use of a recognized object as a symbol, and then deviating from the audience's expected context that the object is found in, thereby adding another layer of meaning -- or at least leaving room for reinterpretation?].

    That's the only really obvious one that I can think of that the moment, though.
    That's how I've done it in the past, although I've started getting very thoughtful about avoiding activating people's internal schemas too soon. You saw that in my novel, where the discussion of the protagonists was cloaked and delayed. I liked that -- making the reader use senses to engage with the thing before any cultural implications / biases were triggered.

    Introduce the image and let it roll around and get comfy before making the connectoids. Or ghosting the connectoids -- I hate pedantry unless it's absolutely required.

    Or, can a symbol or motif be introduced by its conspicuous absence? I think so, but requires more awareness. We are not the New Readers of TSE-TSE's age, equipped with a predictable repertoire that can be activated. I think this is what still fascinates me about deconstructing texts -- it's not as dependent on connections. Or deliberate misreadings of texts....
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  4. #44
    Senior Member raincrow007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivercrow View Post
    Introduce the image and let it roll around and get comfy before making the connectoids. Or ghosting the connectoids -- I hate pedantry unless it's absolutely required.

    Or, can a symbol or motif be introduced by its conspicuous absence? I think so, but requires more awareness. We are not the New Readers of TSE-TSE's age, equipped with a predictable repertoire that can be activated. I think this is what still fascinates me about deconstructing texts -- it's not as dependent on connections. Or deliberate misreadings of texts....
    Yeah, I think that's a luxury writers have sometimes over visual artists -- direct [or indirect ] narrative. Paintings and other static images require a different sort of work from the audience [as well as the creators]. Sure, it's the same subjective interpretive dance that's done on literature, but I think something about the concreteness of a work of art is a bit more visceral somehow. Maybe intuitive or instinctual is what I mean... more Cups than Swords, let's say.

    I like the idea of a symbol resonating through its absence. It seems so very non-Western and mysterious. But you're right -- few pull it off well, and even fewer appreciate it when it happens. At least in literature. I think the absence of something works better visually. It's one of the easiest hooks a visual artist has at his/her disposal to generate mystery: "What's behind that closed door?", "Why is that girl looking out of the picture plane?", etc.

    Perhaps it's no more than ghosting connectoids in another fashion. *shrugs*

  5. #45
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    I was speaking to a friend this afternoon and we ended up discussing The Hanged Man.

    Some images I found:

    HangedMansml.jpg
    From Marita Liulia


    This series -- what there is of it, as it's a work in progress -- is promising.

    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  6. #46
    It's always something... PuddleRiver's Avatar
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    You scored as Empress: 100%
    Strength: 81%
    Death: 81%
    "In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay one invincible summer."
    ~~~~
    A Christian's life may be the only Bible some people ever read.
    ~~~~
    "The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them" Maya Angelou.
    ~~~~
    I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ" Gandhi
    ~~~~

  7. #47
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
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    Which Major Arcana Tarot Card Are You?

    You scored as a XIX: The Sun

    This is the happiest card in the deck. It is full of joy and optimism, everything is right with the world. We are as innocent children playing in the fields without care. The Sun brings success, well-being and happiness in all spheres - material, emotional, spiritual -wherever our desires lay. When this card appears in a Tarot spread it indicates success, joy and happiness. Obstacles will be overcome, goals achieved.When badly aspected, it can indicate a stagnation through over-indulgence, too much of a good thing.

    XIX: The Sun 75%
    II - The High Priestess 69%
    XVI: The Tower 63%
    XIII: Death 56%
    0 - The Fool 56%
    VI: The Lovers 50%
    VIII - Strength 44%
    X - Wheel of Fortune 38%
    I - Magician 38%
    XI: Justice 31%
    IV - The Emperor 31%
    III - The Empress 19%
    XV: The Devil 13%


    I've been fortunate in life. I've been very lucky in love; much of my happiness comes from that. On the other hand, I have a history of choosing goals that are readily achievable, and not challenging or testing myself.

  8. #48
    Senior Member raincrow007's Avatar
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    That one *is* interesting.

    Vaguely reminds me of Kahlo crossed with McKean. Or something.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Sahara's Avatar
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    I am really into the Luis Royo tarot deck at the moment:

    Labyrinth deck

    The Black Tarot deck

    I prefer the softness of the first pack, but I really bought them for the images, more than the actual meanings. I tend to play around with my basic decks when doing a reading. (a reading I don't believe in, keep hoping I will be convinced somehow )
    "No one can be free of the chains that surround them"

  10. #50
    Junior Member Blossom76's Avatar
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    i have a tarot pack never used them wouldnt know how!

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