Is it worse for women?

[Mitzy]

Originally Posted by nolla

So, what is the prize of the competition? I don't think that women compete each other only because they love to compete. The only prizes that I can see is either the respect of other women or the admiration of men. It must be to impress someone.

they compete to win and to feel better about their own selves

at first, they show off to other women and flaunt themselves. so yeah, they do compete to compete

its not really much about guys...
guys are just like accessories

more guys you have around, the more there is to show off to other women and make them jealous

the more desirable you are to guys, the better woman you are. the better woman you are, the more you win the game

of course this is all surface

in the end girls get tired and want something more real with a man
in which case thats when the girl stops trying so hard
and THATS when they let themselves go and just put on a pair of jeans t shirt and mascara

cuz when it comes to guys
its whats on the inside that counts, not the outside. and thats when girls become all mushy and generally follow the whole 'feminine' role..

[nolla]

So there are many prizes? First the regained self-confidence, then the respect of women, then the trophy-guys, then later on, self-improvement?

[Mitzy]

word.

its a chain/cycle

[ptgatsby]

Originally Posted by nolla

Really!? Now, mothers, come clean and confess.. How many bastard children do you have?

But seriously, where did you get that info? Links, please... (if it turns out true, I will never trust a woman again )

I googled up what I remember - the most likely reference that I am thinking of is covered in "Genetic Ties and the Family". But looking at it now, the reference is probably biased towards those that would get tested, so take it with a large grain of salt. The data itself comes from reports from paternity testing in the states and australia.

The most I'll say is that it is highly suggestive that women under-report their own cheating, meaning that the gap might be much narrower than we think.

[nolla]

Originally Posted by ptgatsby

I googled up what I remember - the most likely reference that I am thinking of is covered in "Genetic Ties and the Family". But looking at it now, the reference is probably biased towards those that would get tested, so take it with a large grain of salt. The data itself comes from reports from paternity testing in the states and australia.

The most I'll say is that it is highly suggestive that women under-report their own cheating, meaning that the gap might be much narrower than we think.

Thanks. Looks like an interesting book, I'm going to go through as much as possible at google books. (I only read the story of a man who has to pay child support for a child that isn't his, and is denied to see the child. WTF? I have to read this through...)

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by nolla

I was trying to ask if your self-doubt comes from unconscious (as passive as it can get) man-hunting. See:



The first part you say you don't like yourself when you compare to other women. Now, this is the unconscious part. Then you say you consciously need to fight it. Then you doubt if it is about men. My question: What else could it be? Why do you need to be desirable if it isn't about men?

To be an influential part of a group?
Beauty gives power over men and women alike.
Looking good gives the illusion that you are also strong and healthy.

BTW I didn't read any further down the thread than this.

[nolla]

Originally Posted by Cindy

To be an influential part of a group?
Beauty gives power over men and women alike.
Looking good gives the illusion that you are also strong and healthy.

You are right that power is an important factor in this. Very important. We could even turn the whole question about power and say that men are mostly the ones that have power and the women are the ones trying to take some of it away. The men don't have the need to use their looks, as it is enough to know your business. But women are treated unfairly, so they need to put on the make-up and the short-but-not-too-short skirt and gain some more power over the men.

This is actually interesting point of view because we can see that the feminists who refuse to play along and rather burn their bra, will lose power, thus making it harder for feminism to succeed.

[Cindy]

The power would be more equal if what most women are naturally good at was valued by the majority ie. the value of a successful parent having as higher status value as being a successful executive. I wish I had an example that was less loaded.

Looks are a matter of luck, we are competing with luck lol.
There is endless opportunity to get smarter however learning to be prettier is limited. Choosing to use our looks as a determining point for confidence is a trap, the scope needs to be broader.

Looks have their power, even for a man with a sexy face, yet men have a broader range of possible successes to rate their confidence on (and so do girls but we don't see it so easily) hence being ugly is not going to weigh as heavily on a mans self esteem.

So there is my thinking but can't beat the feelings eh.
Perhaps it's heavily built into our subconscious, or perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree lol.

[edel weiss]

Originally Posted by nolla

This is actually interesting point of view because we can see that the feminists who refuse to play along and rather burn their bra, will lose power, thus making it harder for feminism to succeed.

Feminism would actually say that a woman shouldn't need to 'play along', just to gain power. If she wants to wear make up, good for her. If she feels like she has to wear make up because that's what people expect, it's not very healthy.

[nolla]

Originally Posted by edel weiss

Feminism would actually say that a woman shouldn't need to 'play along', just to gain power. If she wants to wear make up, good for her. If she feels like she has to wear make up because that's what people expect, it's not very healthy.

I agree, they shouldn't. But most of the women I know do make up because it is expected of them. But then again, I wear trousers and not skirt because that is expected of me.