Depressives

[Victor]

I know misery loves company but I had no idea it was so aggressive.

I love company too but I took it for granted that everyone was seeking the joie de vie.

This was my mistake and quite a big mistake.

So I very foolishly engaged with depressives.

Depressives have a world view that they not just cling to tenaciously but aggressively promote.

And they will often insist on politeness and good manners while they emotionally poison you.

Depressives want to, insist on, confirming their world view.

And their thinking is good, it is their emotions are vile.

And so they can be logical and good mannered, while inducting you into their poisonous emotions.

Depressives are a bit like paranoid schizophrenics who are the most logical people in the world.

So depressives rationalise their emotional world view and try to foist it on you.

Depressives are quite like drug addicts - no matter what they say, they always return like a dog to its own vomit - to drugs or, in this case, their depressive emotions.

There are two big problems. The first is that emotions are invisible and so we often overlook them - and they are very easily denied.

Also emotions are contagious and can easily infect others without their knowing.

Also depressives are in very large numbers - as depressive feelings are one of the most common complaints brought to doctors.

Also we live in the therapeutic society and are enjoined to sympathise with depressives. To sympathise is the worst thing you can do - it doesn't help the depressive and leaves you open to contagion.

To sympathise with depressives means you are going to feel the same poisonous emotions as the depressives.

The safe way to relate to depressives is to empathise because you can empathise without feeling the same as.

But the problem is most think they are empathic when they have no training in empathy, and all they can do is sympathise in the guise of empathy. And so quite naturally, they feel the same as the depressives.

And so depression is of now epidemic proportions in the West.

We have succeeded, at least in Australia, of protecting ourselves against AIDS by the use of prophylactics. But we have no protection against depressives.

Depressive emotions are invisible and contagious and depressives are emotionally aggressive.

[disregard]

They're a bit like black holes.

They sap your energy and positive emotions, and still they won't be satisfied. They'll be even more depressed!

I have no patience for it.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by disregard

They're a bit like black holes.

They sap your energy and positive emotions, and still they won't be satisfied. They'll be even more depressed!

I have no patience for it.

Yes, this is a good way of putting it.

And yes, emotionally feeding a depressive is a bit like feeding a poker machine - a poker machine takes all your good money while a depressive takes all your good emotions.

And the tragedy is that this doesn't help the depressive or you.

Lucky you are short of patience.

[Jennifer]

More psych, less rant, please -- after all, this is the "psych" section, correct? Rants go elsewhere. Thanks.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Victor

I know misery loves company but I had no idea it was so aggressive...

Sorry things didn't work out with your boy/girlfriend, but thanks for the superb example of vilifying one's own inferior function.

[Jack Flak]

Victor has no obvious type, so I've begun to think he's some kind of Noosphere-based deity.

[strawberryfields]

This post irritates me. I hope you never get depression Victor, but if you did it might give you more insight into the feelings of a depressed person. People don't choose to have depression - many desperately wish they didn't have it - and yet your post sounds like you're blaming them and holding them responsible. The very fact that depression has such a strong genetic component demonstrates a lot of it is outwith the control of the sufferer. I have known people you would never imagine would get depressed become depressed, and suddenly understand it is an illness and not a choice.

'Depressives insist on confirming their world view' - I wonder if you say that because they seem not to listen to rational alternatives. However, that again isn't necessarily a choice on their part - often your capacity to think rationally is inhibited by depression, meaning you genuinely believe the world is a black place with no hope. Regardless of whether or not that's the truth, sometimes you need to accept that is the place people are in, and there is no simple verbal solution. The fact that depressive feelings often lead people to committing suicide shows how seriously they believe in their hopelessness.

As for the 'dangers' of sympathising and empathising with depressed people, yes perhaps there are some potential problems. Depressive feelings can be 'contagious', but I think there is more of a danger of taking the judgemental approach you are taking. Stigma and blame attached to mental illness help nobody - what helps people is an understanding of the illness, and a willingness to come alongside them in it. Also, I don't think a great deal of depression is caused by sympathising with another depressed person. That might cause you to feel down, but unless you're very close to them or spend a large amount of time with them, it's unlikely to give you clinical depression. However it's not unheard of, so perhaps people with a tendency to empathise a lot need to try and learn ways to protect themselves from feeling the same feelings as depressed people around them. 'To sympathise is the worst thing you can do' - to me, that sounds cruel. I will sympathise with a depressed person because they are often in a painful place and in need of love and to know someone cares. I wonder if your approach of offering no sympathy would genuinely help the problem, or if it would just lead to more shame, judgement and isolation amongst depressed people. I suspect the latter.

[RuffledINTP]

Originally Posted by strawberryfields

This post irritates me. I hope you never get depression Victor, but if you did it might give you more insight into the feelings of a depressed person. People don't choose to have depression - many desperately wish they didn't have it - and yet your post sounds like you're blaming them and holding them responsible. The very fact that depression has such a strong genetic component demonstrates a lot of it is outwith the control of the sufferer. I have known people you would never imagine would get depressed become depressed, and suddenly understand it is an illness and not a choice.

'Depressives insist on confirming their world view' - I wonder if you say that because they seem not to listen to rational alternatives. However, that again isn't necessarily a choice on their part - often your capacity to think rationally is inhibited by depression, meaning you genuinely believe the world is a black place with no hope. Regardless of whether or not that's the truth, sometimes you need to accept that is the place people are in, and there is no simple verbal solution. The fact that depressive feelings often lead people to committing suicide shows how seriously they believe in their hopelessness.

As for the 'dangers' of sympathising and empathising with depressed people, yes perhaps there are some potential problems. Depressive feelings can be 'contagious', but I think there is more of a danger of taking the judgemental approach you are taking. Stigma and blame attached to mental illness help nobody - what helps people is an understanding of the illness, and a willingness to come alongside them in it. Also, I don't think a great deal of depression is caused by sympathising with another depressed person. That might cause you to feel down, but unless you're very close to them or spend a large amount of time with them, it's unlikely to give you clinical depression. However it's not unheard of, so perhaps people with a tendency to empathise a lot need to try and learn ways to protect themselves from feeling the same feelings as depressed people around them. 'To sympathise is the worst thing you can do' - to me, that sounds cruel. I will sympathise with a depressed person because they are often in a painful place and in need of love and to know someone cares. I wonder if your approach of offering no sympathy would genuinely help the problem, or if it would just lead to more shame, judgement and isolation amongst depressed people. I suspect the latter.

DITTO... I hope for your sake, Victor, you never find yourself in the throws of a depression. It is NOT a pleasent place to be and no one readily chooses to be there. It's different for everyone, but I can't begin to explain how it feels to be in an ever downward spiraling mental place where you wonder if you have truly hit rock bottom. You want to feel better and be happy, but it's not something you can just snap your fingers at and have appear. Often times chemical imbalances in the brain are the culprit. Would you have the same opinion towards someone with a handicap or a heart condition for being unable to function as well in society (due to something out of their control)?

I say this.. If people are unpleasent to be around, don't be around them. While you are incredibly warranted in this world to have your own opinion, do be certain that all of society and the way people operate will not change. Depressed individuals will always be present and if you don't have the desire to deal with those individuals in the throws of inner termoil, do just stay away. Your attitude of treating it as a public nuisance does not and will not help the person in question.

[Dwigie]

I know someone who was depressive and probably commited suicide because of that, we're not exactly sure if it's the case but he had said he wanted to in the past, never took him seriously.
That actually offended me. I'm sure if you were in their situation you'd want some sympathy...We didn't show him much sympathy to be honest. We never realized he needed help because you know, things like this they seem so "otherwordly" and over dramatic.You think, oh "this could never happen to someone I know" and then it does. I never realized how badly in shape he was until it was too late. Depressed people need help, they're human beings, they're not monsters out to get you and if they hurt you it's not exactly "intentionally", they often put on cynical fronts and a "know-it-all" attitude. Not giving them sympathy is like actually reinforcing their "nobody cares about me" view of life....anyways maybe I'm just generalizing on one person but it's sure that they need help.

[cafe]

I'll take a nice, quiet Depressive over a Manic any day.