Women, "Play Nice" and the Danger Instinct

[PinkPiranha]

I want to thank everyone for their participation and input. I'm both pleased and astonished by how many strong-minded ladies we have here, and saddened that you all, world-wide, have seen so many dark times. I hope by sharing we can lighten the collective load and learn how to be safer while not being afraid or driven to cynicism.

I'm really pleased that Ivy mentioned "The Gift of Fear". That was the book title that had eluded my memory. If anyone has read it, please do tell us about your experience with it and how it made you feel.

[Anja]

Your welcome, Pink. I was glad to have found you women here discussing this. There was a time when I was actively searching for answers and it's been a while since I've had a conversation of this type.

When I worked for the state I taught a staff development class on women-focussed wellness which was always an interesting challenge. (Heh. Queen of the understatement I am!)

So I like to think I have something to offer.

I was a student librarian, Jae, at my high school in southern MN and later at a college in northern IA. I'd once considered making it a career. Pure heaven - hiding in the stacks and reading. It could have been a disastrous choice!

What you do today would probably bear no faint resemblance to the old stamping books stuff.

I'm looking forward to getting to know you all better and am happy to be well-received!

For anyone who is interested, if you'll forgive me for using this thread by way of introduction, I've been getting to know people at INFP Global Chatter and have an introduction there on the intro thread.

[proteanmix]

I've got a little different spin on women and playing nice.

I can identify in some ways but others I can't. As far as my physical safety is concerned, I was raised to stand my ground and fight like a deranged banshee if ever someone threatened to physically attack me. My father and brother taught my sister and I how to fight (dirty if necessary) and my sister is naturally athletic and pals around with guys. I grew up minutes away from very violent areas but my specific neighborhood was comparatively low crime. I was taught to be aware of my surroundings and if anything looked amiss don't ignore my feelings of danger. The only real times I was instructed to defer to people was with church folks, not even a general deference to older people or as a woman.

Actually around my way, if you ever punked out you'd get it 20x worse. I've actually had the opposite problem of wanting to show myself as peaceful and not have it be taken as a sign of weakness. You'd always have to have the last word, last comeback, be harder and sometimes I'd feel like OK, I'm done I don't want to go through this pissing contest but if you showed weakness it would be like open season. I think many people regardless of their sex in my environment feel the need to be tougher than what they actually are and that is just as wearying; to be constantly fighting and never able to take off your armor and rest.

Because of this, I've always felt (foolishly?) immune to certain types of attacks and my vulnerability as a woman because I've always (foolishly?) thought that I can handle myself.

[Jae Rae]

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

I want to thank everyone for their participation and input. I'm both pleased and astonished by how many strong-minded ladies we have here, and saddened that you all, world-wide, have seen so many dark times. I hope by sharing we can lighten the collective load and learn how to be safer while not being afraid or driven to cynicism.

I'm really pleased that Ivy mentioned "The Gift of Fear". That was the book title that had eluded my memory. If anyone has read it, please do tell us about your experience with it and how it made you feel.

I'll request it from the library today.

And thanks for the great thread. I appreciated reading everyone's posts.

[cafe]

I haven't had too much trouble, but I was raised to be suspicious. My mom went through a lot of the kinds of things mentioned here so I've always been kind of aware of that stuff.

I did have that one guy at the bus stop invite me into a stairwell with him to get out of the rain. I felt as though my intelligence was being insulted more than anything. But I was still glad when the bus came.

I would definitely like to read that book, though.

[Antisocial one]

There is no way I can say what I will say without sounding creepy but I am doing this because I think that women are overlooking one factor.

Since I am a guy who knows how it is like when women runs away from you screaming and thinking that her life is over I will take my place in the thread.

I have already confessed in another thread what happened so I will not again.
I like to spend time in dark and quiet places alone because it is the best for abstract thinking.

But what strikes me is running speed of women in the time of crisis. I am a person who is a good runner even for a guy. So in the case that I was a maniac there is no way she could have escaped me.

Also if you are against three guys your only hope is to run away. I have seen women running in normal situations and in crisis, and I am sorry to say that this speed will take you nowhere.
So, all of you should at least try to work on that.
(I am sorry if I am creating generalization here)


This is the best advice I can offer in this topic.

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by Ivy

I will get into this in more depth at a later time. It's one of my favorite topics. But for now, here is a book on this exact issue that IMO we should all read:

Amazon.com: The Gift of Fear: Gavin De Becker: Books

Just as an endorsement, it's one of my favorite books ever.

How'd it make me feel? It made me feel like I could trust my intuition in a crisis situation without having to justify my behavior with some kind of logical rationalization. The mind is aware of much more than we are conscious of, and sometimes we might not understand our intuitions until after the situation is resolved.

I still reread it every so often. He's also a wonderful communicator and knows how to convey his ideas well.

Originally Posted by LadyJaye

...I had all of my things already consolidated into one manageable bag, and I didn't unlock my car door until I'd put my keys in between my fingers, so they stuck out, in case I had to defend myself ( like I said, we lived in a really unsafe area ), and it also kept me from having to fumble around for them or accidentally drop them.

That's actually what I do too. I'm not paranoid, but I'm prudent and try to minimize my vulnerability. I also always keep my doors locked, as soon as I get in the car, and I'm careful where I walk, etc. I like being with someone if I can.

I've also told myself already, if I'm in a situation that I don't like or I feel harassed by someone, even if there's nothing I can put my finger on as specific justification, I'm allowed to be a bitch and just get out of things. Screw being "nice" and protecting someone else's feelings in that sort of situation.

Have any of you read "Lucky" by Alice Sebold? (The topic matter is harsh, it might be too much... but... just... I don't even know how to describe it. She's a very strong woman.)

[InaF3157]

What is troubling is that you are taught to be nice and deferential as a woman, but if you are victimized on account of it, you are blamed for that. Personally, I think it is a good call to distrust and dismiss anyone who tries to teach you to weaken your natural defences or your human reactions. They have something besides your well-being at heart.

[proteanmix]

Originally Posted by Antisocial one

There is no way I can say what I will say without sounding creepy but I am doing this because I think that women are overlooking one factor.

Since I am a guy who knows how it is like when women runs away from you screaming and thinking that her life is over I will take my place in the thread.

I have already confessed in another thread what happened so I will not again.
I like to spend time in dark and quiet places alone because it is the best for abstract thinking.

But what strikes me is running speed of women in the time of crisis. I am a person who is a good runner even for a guy. So in the case that I was a maniac there is no way she could have escaped me.

Also if you are against three guys your only hope is to run away. I have seen women running in normal situations and in crisis, and I am sorry to say that this speed will take you nowhere.
So, all of you should at least try to work on that.
(I am sorry if I am creating generalization here)


This is the best advice I can offer in this topic.

Thank you?

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by proteanmix

Thank you?

I admit, I am not sure how to read any of that either.

(I do know enough though to stay away from rabid sheep!)