MBTIc type influence survey 2008/Q4

[Santtu]

Originally Posted by bluemonday

You are asking too many different questions which are unrelated.

Also, what's the point?

Other "questions" are material to prepare the respondent to answer the relevant question. People might give their answer by different judgments; for someone, influential people = someone who posts. Influence can them be determined by examining a post count. (INTP or other nerdy tech type, I say).

For someone who thinks of people, influence might come from people who've managed to impose a certain kind of formal or informal rules on the people.

I approach polling as a professional in the art. Some questions are questions of fact. Other are questions of opinion. Sometimes the opinion is asked with a strict definition of key words, sometimes the question may be properly answered with a larger set of definitions in mind.

Exacting types might find any "openness to interpretation" and "opinion" an error of methodology, but conveniently, that's just an opinion

[Spartacuss]

Originally Posted by Santtu

A good poll takes into account the opinions of those polled, and may so be reliable and gather all sorts of opinions - not just those narrowly intended by a lone member. I don't realistically expect this poll to excite everyone so that they'll vote. It'll still utilize different interpretations of "influence": someone might have felt pressured by a particular group of people type X, making them feel the type X has been the influential one. Someone might feel a particular type has been particularly effective in shaping the styles of communication in here. This poll tries to capture exactly that, and the issues covered in the OP.

Ah. I thought you might have meant that after I posted.

Originally Posted by Santtu

Surely by the definition of "influence" you'll see you're wrong right from the start, to continue with your "corrective" attitude Correct first, then see who needs correcting .

The disingenuous smilie is not necessary, given your extremely hostile tone. But I did not intend a correcting tone, as you seemed to have assumed, rather a cautionary one. I agree that on the measure of "influence" as you have elaborated it (subjective feelings of board members), reality does not necessarily lie in the board stats. I was merely cautioning that the poll might not give the reality of influence for a variety of reasons. It does seem a way to measure which type has struck members as "loudest".

Originally Posted by Santtu

A type being merely mentioned might not be indicative of it's influence on the board. There are several methods by which this could happen. That's why opinion poll instead of a database search.

I suggested no database search. I don't think these variables are currently searchable.
By board stats, I did not mean the type of inquiry ygolo described, but a more multifaceted one that looked at, among other things, what types posted threads and posts that elicited the most replies, which type has the most responses per post, many other measures, etc.

Originally Posted by Santtu

Opinion poll is subject to other kinds of problems, mainly from biased sample. Bias can be lessened by choosing a neutral introduction to the survey, as I have done. Some people recognize my name, which might lead to some bias. Bias might come from choosing a sub-forum favored by particular kinds of persons, too.

And that is all I meant.
You won't get "reality"; only opinion.

Originally Posted by Santtu

I acknowledge these and many other problems of opinion polling, so you'll do well to acknowledge problems with your suggested method, provided you know even a bit of research methods and the theory and practice behind them. Your naive solution suggests otherwise.

My ... solution? I don't think I outlined one. I think I understand why you end up complaining about people not responding to your threads - i.e., why under a "board data" measure, your influence might not be great.

[Santtu]

Originally Posted by entropie

The intention is cool. I just lack to see values that could be measured.

Opinion is opinion is opinion, see above

[entropie]

The things BlueWing in his type thread contributed were great. I am just impressed where he did draw all that experience from, because the greatest of the type threads I could clearly read and they did enlighten me at some point.

The whole discussions going on about changing something in type theory or re-inventing things, I do not see as contribution, but personalized perception.

And that's what MBTI is about in my opinion, personalized perception. You can build the best system, you like, you still do deal with humans and it is likely that they will not understand the system the way you do. That's what makes life beautiful at all.

So if you want to try to look for contribute, in my opinion you have to look for members who helped each other out on crucial questions. But I couldnt name a special type, who has a preference of doing so.

There is an ENTJ I like, an INTP, an ENFP, since yesterday an ESFJ (or was it ESTJ), there is an ISTP I like (even if I think he hates me ) and so on.

They all helped me develop my understanding and contributed to my type theory.

The description itself MBTI has to offer, like Ti or Te or whatever. That can be changed and people who widen the understanding of the functions are contributors. I could probably give my vote to the INTP on that, because they dominate the forums. In real life, I could give it to alot of people. In this forums BlueWing does deserve it. So I could vote INTP.

The description itself, is nothing like a description to life, for people who are to dumb to interpret books (count me in). Because everything artsy, human made, even an engine is MBTI and gives you a perfect analysis of human psychology. Because it's just what we do, we are.

Sry, did write a little bit offtopic here. I think you will get better answer to your thread.

[Aimahn]

I can see what you mean Entropie. I did learn a lot about type just interacting in the real world, just like you. Of course with my own little interpretation and spin on it. That is what I think Santu was trying to sort of steer away from I assume. Pigeon-holing people into making a certain decision, and you gave a great example of the many different ways the poll could be interpreted.

I guess if you go on what you believe to be your honest opinion or criteria, just like you did with mbti and most people for that matter, then the poll could give some interesting results. If its not as restricted, dissecting the data after the fact could lend to some interesting discussion and analysis. If we were to just go on one facet or avenue then I don't think it would lead to an interesting study.

*Influence (or impact) I think is a good word choice. It is one that is sufficiently open enough where there is a lot of room left for personal interpretation. If he were to do a more cause and Effect type study then the poll would inherently be skewed to positive or negative connotations that would be drawn from the results.

[entropie]

Originally Posted by Aimahn

I can see what you mean Entropie. I did learn a lot about type just interacting in the real world, just like you. Of course with my own little interpretation and spin on it. That is what I think Santu was trying to sort of steer away from I assume. Pigeon-holing people into making a certain decision, and you gave a great example of the many different ways the poll could be interpreted.

I guess if you go on what you believe to be your honest opinion or criteria, just like you did with mbti and most people for that matter, then the poll could give some interesting results. If its not as restricted, dissecting the data after the fact could lend to some interesting discussion and analysis. If we were to just go on one facet or avenue then I don't think it would lead to an interesting study.

ok, fair enough.

[A Schnitzel]

I think the poll only deserves 6 options, since the majority of posters are ENFP, ENTP, INTP, INFP, INFJ, INTJ (in no particular order). I don't see any of these six types dominating.

[Santtu]

Originally Posted by Spartacuss

The disingenuous smilie is not necessary, given your extremely hostile tone. But I did not intend a correcting tone, as you seemed to have assumed, rather a cautionary one.

Perhaps I'm oversensitive to wise-asses in my line of work, and extending it here. I'm talking of those ignorant of the test methodology, ones suggesting that opinions along with the test results must both be wrong.

I'm seeing you're neither a wise-ass nor particularly wrong; please do accept my apologies.

I agree that on the measure of "influence" as you have elaborated it (subjective feelings of board members), reality does not necessarily lie in the board stats.

Thank you.

I suggested no database search. I don't think these variables are currently searchable.

Misunderstanding in this was the source of my hostility. I'm sorry; I thought Ygolo AND the person before suggested a database approach. Its clear you didn't; I don't know what other than tiredness made me think so.

By board stats, I did not mean the type of inquiry ygolo described, but a more multifaceted one that looked at, among other things, what types posted threads and posts that elicited the most replies, which type has the most responses per post, many other measures, etc.

And that is all I meant.

That would be an elaborate inquiry with a potential for lot of valuable results. I'm sure it would reveal a lot of actual connections and correlations not known previously. Our boss once did a more elaborate study on publicly available data on our workplace performance, and we were awe-struck. There was a world of wonder beneath what we held as containing nothing of interest at all. Data mining for the win

My ... solution? I don't think I outlined one.

I confused who were suggesting an easy technical measurement.

[Santtu]

Originally Posted by entropie

..
Sry, did write a little bit offtopic here. I think you will get better answer to your thread.

You wrote beautifully. Thank you. I didn't think of personally influential, but it's an important and valid consideration. The many ENTP have worked best as an example of a person I'd want to be, so they have been influential for me. I still consider their influence for general audience to be a bit down from what it was before, though my appreciation of them is up. It's at the #1 position.

I was seeing a lot of ENTP issues being discussed few months ago, and I started feeling uncomfortable, as if my then-type were collectively a bunch of attention seekers It balanced out pretty quick, with none of those bad feelings persisting.

I've figured my search of type earlier this year was because of my inability to live the life of my authentic self at the time. J values.. more exactly, Te & Ni, literally made my head hurt. I had been conditioned such by my burnout. At the onset of my burnout few years ago, I experienced tremendously disturbing mental pain and imagery at the thought of duty, responsibility, shoulds and should nots. Various great ENTP proved me I could use Ti & Ne instead and enjoy it. I wouldn't have recovered without it. It was similar enough a thought process for me to engage in it for some time while I was completely cured.

So, cheers for the ENTP!

[Santtu]

Originally Posted by whatever

^ by some of those questions I'd have to say ESFJ from the amount of loathing that's tossed thier direction on this forum!

Thought the same, antithesis to INTP existence