User Tag List

Results 1 to 5 of 5

  1. #1
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    1,862

    Default 10 Aspects of the Big Five and Possible Relation to the Cognitive Functions

    So I came across this study on the 10 aspects of the Big Five. Basically, each of the 5 dichotomies can be subdivided into two aspects: Neuroticism = Volatility + Withdrawal, Extraversion = Enthusiasm + Assertiveness, Agreeableness = Compassion + Politness, Openness = Intellect + Openness, Conscientiousness = Industriousness + Orderliness.

    Now, when I read about these, I was immediately reminded of the functions. I drew correlations like this: for extraversion, enthusiasm refers to ExxP and assertiveness refers to ExxJ; for agreeableness, compassion refers to xxFP and politeness refers to xxFJ; for openness, intellect refers to xNxJ and openness refers to xNxP.

    Now, you can see in the article that the various aspects correlate with each other. Each aspect correlates with the aspect also under the same dichotomy, e.g. politeness with compassion. Intellect and assertiveness correlate (both J?), compassion and openness correlate (both P?) and enthusiasm and compassion correlate (both P?). What I would have expected, is for politeness and assertiveness to correlate, if my theory is correct, but instead they negatively correlate. Also, conscientiousness correlates strangely with each aspect - industriousness correlates with intellect and extraversion, whereas orderliness doesn't have much correlation (it is said that conscientiousness correlates with J characteristics, which I can't really see here).

    Could I be right - that the Big 5 aspects are like the cognitive functions?

    Oh, and one thing I don't like about Big 5 - it only really describes one side of the dichotomies, and defines the other as the negative of it. Like, you have traits that correlate to Feeling (i.e. agreeableness), but Thinking correlates to the lack of feeling. So we only have correlative aspects for Fi, Fe, Ni, Ne, not for, Si, Se, Ti, Te.

    Here is a test for the aspects (as ISTJ, I happen to relate more to the assertiveness, politeness and intellect side of the aspects, i.e. my proposed "J" traits, and also to orderliness and withdrawal).

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    bad
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    86

    Default

    The big five are obsviously just slices/dimensions/dichotomies of the total personality spectrum, just like Jungian opposites or the MBTI letter dimensions. The difference is that Jungian functions are uniformly mapped over the spectrum, as they represent a beutiful abstract/deeper intuitive geometric model. While the big five are mapped out into language only, in a non-uniform distribution, there is no deeper meaning or intuitive beauty in the model, its origin is just word statistics over big data. What I mean by non-uniform is: (1) there is a big overlap of the dimensions of the big five, they are not exact 90 degrees axis-es of each other (while Jungian functions are, in 4 dimensions). And (2) the extremes of the big five dimensions are not of equal distance from each other. Its just a mess if you look at it from an intuitive geometric perception. The advantage of the big 5 is however, that its (supposed to be) well-defined in language, thus easier to use (especially for the common Si, which is almost 50% of the population) and doesnt require a whole initiation into understanding the mysteries (usually only open for Ne/Ni-users) which is the basic foundation that proper use of Jungian functions require.

  3. #3
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    632

    Default 10 Aspects of the Big Five and Possible Relation to the Cognitive Functions

    Legion I found the 10 aspects of the big five interesting and could appreciate it as a structure in its own right. It would be helpful as a tool in cooperative settings like organisations and that is a good thing. The universe calls for Action so such an endeavour is not a waste and many people seem to have placed much energy into developing the body of work. I have no real understanding of there agenda but I would intuit that there maybe much more to it than I can recognise.

    Good luck to them.

    As for your model I found it interesting and thought that I could sense the logic of your reasoning and application of thought. And at its own level I liked most of it but I felt that the logic slipped with the last two ( for openness, intellect refers to xNxJ and openness refers to xNxP.

    I think it is good that you are exploring such ideas.

    I think you have in your excitement for the idea have broken the logic of some basic rules and that maybe why you formulated the final two as you have done so.

    But my job is not to poke you in the eye or discourage you. There are some Good ideas within your model but the conceptual frame work may need adjustment.

    Perhaps you. May think more about the role of the P and J within the model you manifested. But at a counter intuitive level I liked most of it.

    Since you are interested in the big five I may mention that there is another model that has five ingredients.

    I forget it's name but the idea is based on a fact that under some level of inner personal stress all persons react or respond in one of five different ways.

    See if I can recall correctly..

    The Blamer The Distractor The Placater The Computer Anger.

    I thought about this model for some years because it seems to be correct.

    Some time later almost two decades later I learned much about the enneagram instincts and thought about the six pointed figure that hosts points: 1 2 4 5 7 8
    And some where around that point in time the model re entered my mind and hung around for some reason with out much of a connection in thought to what I was concentrating upon.

    Any way recently while observing my house mate and thinking about the five modalities mentioned I realised that there may in fact be a sixth: The Victim.

    And then it accord to me that they could be placed one at each of the six points of the six pointed figure.

    This is how I have placed them.

    At point one: Anger
    At point two: The Victim
    At point four: The Placater
    At point five: The Computer
    At point seven: The Distractor
    At point eight: The Blamer

    I see this layer as its own and separate from the nine typologies and not having a direct correlation with the six instinctive variants but to do with instinctive reaction and defensive responses that relay from the three primary points being 3 6 9 the primary points that ID Ego and Supper ego stem from and that in my mind, express though the six points of the six pointed figure.

    I am no psychometric expert but I kinda think I am correct.

    But back to your model I like some of you thinking and I do believe there is a mechanism structure that involves ambidextrous functions but I am suspecting its structure is not so linear but more structural. I am getting a sense of it but is still a bit to vague. It will be tricky to tease out but perhaps not so tricky like a jigsaw puzzle.

    I am thinking it's more three dimensional like not with one single layer of ambidextrous functions around the nine points of the enneagram.

    Some of its structure I believe I have and a large portion is linked with a sensible large number pattern, that is a big picture like micro macro like structure in its logical order.

    See what manifests over time.

    Cheers Legion and thanks for posting your topic it was interesting to think about.

  4. #4
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    632

    Default 10 Aspects of the Big Five and Possible Relation to the Cognitive Functions

    Could I be right - that the Big 5 aspects are like the cognitive functions?

    Oh, and one thing I don't like about Big 5 - it only really describes one side of the dichotomies, and defines the other as the negative of it. Like, you have traits that correlate to Feeling (i.e. agreeableness), but Thinking correlates to the lack of feeling. So we only have correlative aspects for Fi, Fe, Ni, Ne, not for, Si, Se, Ti, Te.


    One thing that pops into mind when I think about those eight correlative aspects is a simple fact,. Being that all sells the human body are made from and containing eight master genes.

    The body is made in eight sections and one of the eight master genes is reson cable for the creation of that section, eight in total. This applies to all animals and insects to.

    So it is no surprise that there should be eight,: Fi Fe Ni Ne Si Se Ti Te and another thing that pops into mind is Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do

    If there is a correlation between the eight master genes and its eight sections the bottom Do may be at the feet and the top Do maybe at the head. This is significant because the brain is located in the head and the mind maybe in part the totality of the body.

    But the hart players an important part and the diatonic enneagram maybe play its role within the parts magnetic field and its relationship with the two hemispheres of the brain and is three brain structure.

    I do have a 3, 2, 1, model structure that is worth consideration because the heart head gut component of minds operations is important but I am not in the mood to recall and post it in this moment, but I have posted and explained its basic structure on another enneagram wed sight.


    For those who have an interest in my number patterns may like this and recognise one component that is not mine but basically fits with the rest.

    One Two Three

    0
    1 2
    3 6 9 18


    _1__________7_
    __2_______6__
    ___3____5____
    ______4______




    18__________0
    __9________1__
    ____6____2____
    _______3_______



    I would love to address the ? About five but I don't won't to shear one of my prised number patters witch relates to the six pointed fig and one step in the number patter is a simple sum 5+1=6

    It connect my five dot model with the nine points and the six pointed figure, it's a master pice in it own right, it accounts for the three dimensional nature of minds actions and reactions and co connectivity.

    Like all of my work it requires much work but it is fundamentally simple and kinda astonishing. Like the simple number pattern between the Severn Pointed Figure is.

    Any way I get excited easily when my mind acknowledges some of my small achievements that are the fruit of years of quiet wounding about structure and the simple decimal point ten system..
    Last edited by KitchenFly; 02-15-2015 at 04:55 AM.

  5. #5
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    1,862

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KitchenFly View Post
    One thing that pops into mind when I think about those eight correlative aspects is a simple fact,. Being that all sells the human body are made from and containing eight master genes.

    The body is made in eight sections and one of the eight master genes is reson cable for the creation of that section, eight in total. This applies to all animals and insects to.
    Are the Master genes the ones known as "Hox genes"?

    I was just thinking the other day about how there may be a link between the reason for 4 being the base number of the personality types (N/F/S/T, Ip/Ij/Ep/Ej, 4 groups of function pairs) and there being 4 nucleobases in 2 pairs (A and T, C and G). Maybe the connection is only mathematical/structural (4 being a highly symmetrical number; 4 = 2+2 = 2*2 = 2^2), still highly interesting nonetheless to think about the link between mathematical structures of numbers and structures of the real world such as the human mind.
    Likes rainybisto liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. The problem with MBTI: no clear description of the cognitive functions
    By Wanonymous in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 11-21-2017, 12:30 PM
  2. Big five and MBTI
    By Rex in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-14-2011, 01:57 PM
  3. In your own words, describe how each of the Cognitive Functions play out in your life
    By FalseHeartDothKnow in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-21-2010, 02:31 AM
  4. Strict separation between introverted and extraverted versions of the same function?
    By tcda in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 01-29-2010, 07:51 PM
  5. Images of the Cognitive Functions
    By Mort Belfry in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 02-21-2008, 07:15 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO