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View Poll Results: Does the Five Factor Model inherently define a "good" personality?

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  • Yes

    11 61.11%
  • No

    6 33.33%
  • I don't want to pick yes or no.

    1 5.56%
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  1. #31
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I (on the whole) agree that in most cases, it would be better to [be] agreeable than disagreeable.
    I disagree.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I disagree.
    Yes. I believe we've established that. I agree.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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  3. #33
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    i don't think so. if there's any trait i'm partial to, it's openness. even then, i'll admit that plenty of folks maintain a level of stability by filtering out alternative perspectives and refusing to refurbish their standpoints.

    if the makers of the test intended for the measurement of each trait to be so qualitative, then they probably would have been more consistent about it. for instance, instead of grading for "neuroticism", they would have graded for "calmness", since it would fall in line with "positive" traits like agreeableness and extraversion.

  4. #34
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    The model itself? Not really. Empirically derived, etc. etc., but be careful of researchers' own dispositions to creating the model which could in turn instill their own values into the model, and so on with the caveats.

    The questions that compose the test that assess individual in terms of the model? Maybe. I doubt many people would like to mark affirmative to a question of e.g. "I often feel depressed and blue." Why? Because we tend to not value feeling depressed and blue.

    I realize that the questions and the model are linked, but I think of the model as the underlying, the core; and the questions as the only way to connect to that model. Despite that those questions are in turn mostly answered by self-report, the whole system is more suited as a research tool than as a tool for self-discovery.
    Quote Originally Posted by Floki View Post
    if the makers of the test intended for the measurement of each trait to be so qualitative, then they probably would have been more consistent about it. for instance, instead of grading for "neuroticism", they would have graded for "calmness", since it would fall in line with "positive" traits like agreeableness and extraversion.
    +1

  5. #35
    Senior Member Patrick's Avatar
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    I can easily see how one might be biased in the ways the OP describes. I don't think it was intentional on the part of Big Five theorists, though. I just think the names of the traits could use a PR makeover--especially Neuroticism. Who wants to own up to being Neurotic?

    That said, I recently took a couple Big Five tests, and they proved helpful. I scored high on Neuroticism, and that corresponded with my Oldham type of Sensitive; and those results corresponded to the chronic, low-level anxiety I've experienced all my life. That "anxiety factor" has never been adequately explained by my M-B type of INFP. And if anything, it clashed with what I had thought was my Enneagram type, One.

    So, I did some rereading and self-searching, and it dawned on me that my Enneagram type is actually Six. That gives me a fresh--and I believe more accurate--picture of my personality than I ever had before.
    "Some would say that extended meaningful conversation is a thing of the past. But they'd say it more quickly." (Tom Morris)
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  6. #36
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    The thread necromancy reminds me - @ygolo

    Have you checked out the murderous villain test?


    It's the big 5, but with much better definitions:


    Extrovert = Extrovert
    Dreamer = Openness
    Warm heart = agreeable
    Focused = Conscientious
    Brooding = Neuroticc

    while the opposite spectrum gets:

    Introverted
    Realist
    Cool headed
    Flexible
    Carefree

    Which.. are pretty good traits in themselves (I/E is still the same, but.. well, not sure how that was depicted as lesser to begin with)

    Overall, I thought it was an improvement. Figured you might like it.

  7. #37
    Junior Member ragequit's Avatar
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    SimilarMinds is awful about this. SCOAI (calm ENFJ basically) is is perfect, and the further away from that you are, the more negative your description is.

    I'm SLOEI and here's mine: demanding, controlling, aggressive, retaliatory, does not forgive easily, opinionated, domineering, does not accept what others say, believes that appearances are important, likes to be the center of attention, not patient with people who annoy them, easily annoyed, quick to judge others, preoccupied with self, show off, feels you have to be tough on people to get things done, prone to addiction, not good at sports, frequently pursues impressive achievements, takes charge, competitive, frustrated and angry when people don't live up to expectations, not on good terms with everyone, second place rarely feels good enough to them, antagonistic, able to stand up for self, acts superior to others, hard to satisfy, bothered by disorder, impatient, becomes aggressive when they feel hurt, decisive, abrupt, impulsive, more dominant than submissive, finishes most things they start, desires some level of fame in their community, unable to control cravings, acts out frustrations on others, easily frustrated, can become overwhelmed by events, does not readily admit mistakes, moody, not very religious

    In comparison, here's SCOAI:

    happy, level emotions, not easily discouraged, optimistic, fearless, self confident, non-hostile, trusting, rarely sad, social, content, positive, knows where life is going, socially skilled, not quiet around strangers, acts comfortably with others, takes on responsibilities, likes public speaking, not prone to worrying, not apprehensive about new encounters, flexible, adapts easily to new situations, not afraid to draw attention to self, likes to lead, not bored while working, likes others, hard to annoy, calm in crisis, does not second guess self, not embarrassed easily, high energy level, easy to understand, thinks before acting, strong sense or purpose, likes crowds, interested in science, not prone to jealousy, comfortable in unfamiliar situations, fearless, not skeptical, true to self in all circumstances, highly motivated to succeed, decisive, easy to get to know, narcissistic, driven by reason, physically fit, passionate about bettering the world's condition, finishes most things they start, not easily confused, willing to explain things twice, thinks they are extraordinary

    I'd really like to do some sort of study of the traits most attractive to others. I get an odd feeling they would sound a lot like RCOAI. But that's not to say that the other types don't have their strengths. The Big Five itself isn't biased. Similarminds is. They almost equate likability with being superior.

  8. #38
    Junior Member ragequit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    You know, this idea of one end of the scale being better than the other in the five factor model is something I've been seeing more of recently. It wasn't mentioned at all in the earliest descriptions I read and in fact I think its bullshit... I don't think the model is inherently biased, but the way many people understand it is. I'd be willing to bet there are profesional psychologist out there banging their heads in frustration at the way the model gets reprosented these days. Both ends of all the scales and pros and cons. For example being extremely agreeable makes it hard to say no and thus an open target for every con artist and bully out there. Sometimes it's in your own best interest to tell someone to go fuck themselves.
    THISSSS. People have done this to the MBTI, too. They either label certain types as superior or they blow stereotypes even more out of proportion. The worst part of all this is that the Big Five IS remotely scientific, unlike the MBTI, yet people still misrepresent the true model.

  9. #39
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    The thread necromancy reminds me - @ygolo

    Have you checked out the murderous villain test?


    It's the big 5, but with much better definitions:


    Extrovert = Extrovert
    Dreamer = Openness
    Warm heart = agreeable
    Focused = Conscientious
    Brooding = Neuroticc

    while the opposite spectrum gets:

    Introverted
    Realist
    Cool headed
    Flexible
    Carefree

    Which.. are pretty good traits in themselves (I/E is still the same, but.. well, not sure how that was depicted as lesser to begin with)

    Overall, I thought it was an improvement. Figured you might like it.
    I like these, except brooding still has a somewhat negative connotation. Perhaps 'reactive' in place of neuroticism?
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    I like these, except brooding still has a somewhat negative connotation. Perhaps 'reactive' in place of neuroticism?
    That was my initial reaction too. We've had a talk about that in the villains thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan View Post
    Carefree vs. Brooding is a measure of neuroticism, with the more brooding sorts being more neurotic.
    That's the one item I was not entirely sure how to improve... Its very hard to frame neurotic as a positive, and brooding makes it just as bad. Perhaps they could call the opposite of neurotic oblivious rather then carefree, making both ends of the spectrum kind of equally neutral-negative in flavor.
    I disagree. I can see brooding having sort of a "tortured and sophisticated" Byronic appeal to it. There are at least some people out there who look at brooding as deeper and more authentic.

    Then again, perhaps I do have a side of me that's a little naive and childlike, so maybe oblivious does fit.
    That is true, I didn't think of that. There is also the weird statistic about males with brooding pictures getting more responses on dating websites.... I suppose it does kind of have it's own idolization.

    Edit: Also.. This Fantasizing about emotional pain
    I think he raised some good points.

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