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Thread: Feminist Test

  1. #41
    hypersane Hive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Also, with the inclusion of the prison system of the United States, slightly more men are raped than women in the entire country every year on average.
    Do you have a source to share? I thought consensual sex in prison was way more common.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stephano View Post
    And there are really people offended by this?? What about characters like Sherlock? As long as there are counterparts in the media, at least in the sophisticated media, it's not biased. If someone really wants to believe these stereotypes (s)he will have a problem addressing reality.
    If it becomes a stereotype or the normal way to portray a group of people it can be a problem.

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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    A lot of feminists just want selective equality, they don't truly want women to be equal to men in every area, instead of recognizing gender discrimination dually effects both men, women and everything in between, they just want female victimhood monopoly on sexism. Feminism is not even representative of all women(see #SolidarityIsForWhiteWomen ), how the heck are they going to be genuinely concerned about men's issues(because men have male privilege eh).
    How are "Men's Issues" relevant to a discussion regarding a feminism test?
    I'd prefer adhering to the topic of feminism rather than diverting the thread to men's issues.

  3. #43
    metamorphosing Flâneuse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Why the knee-jerk use of 1950s-style gender roles as an ideological litmus test / dog whistle / "didn't you get the memo" call?

    Please explain without rancor. I seek understanding "right from the horse's mouth."
    Don't worry, I seem to be running unusually low on rancor today. I am, however, full of meandering thoughts, so prepare for the possibility that your efficient, logical INTJ brain will do somersaults in your skull and then explode from frustration. You opened up a can of worms in my brain, buddy.

    summary: I was using hyperbole badly. Now when I reread what I wrote, it almost sounds like a straw man (er...straw person) statement, but it wasn't intended that way. I was attacking things that are really obvious and easy to attack, not misrepresenting something so I can tear it down.

    more detailed explanation (more than what you asked for):


    ......................

    I consider myself an ally of those who believe in gender equality. If someone calls themselves a feminist, great. If they don't want to call themselves feminists but they want equality of the sexes, fine. I go with the dictionary definition of feminism and do call myself a feminist; others see connotations and history as being just as important as technical definitions and may choose to reject the feminist label for their own reasons.
    If someone has some views that I see as sexist but they also genuinely want to learn, I'll recommend some resources so they can learn. If someone is a sexist and doesn't want to learn, I want nothing to do with them.

    Sorry for this drawn-out post. I would have made it shorter if I could.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrderOfTheCaelifera View Post
    How are "Men's Issues" relevant to a discussion regarding a feminism test?
    I'd prefer adhering to the topic of feminism rather than diverting the thread to men's issues.
    I was just agreeing with you're comment on feminism being inherently divisive, they seem to give men's issues some lip service but it is ultimately backhanded condensation. I brought up men's issues because it is indispensable when talking about gender equality and being egalitarian, do you consider yourself egalitarian?
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  5. #45
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underwaterthing View Post
    Don't worry, I seem to be running unusually low on rancor today. I am, however, full of meandering thoughts, so prepare for the possibility that your efficient, logical INTJ brain will do somersaults in your skull and then explode from frustration. You opened up a can of worms in my brain, buddy.

    summary: I was using hyperbole badly. Now when I reread what I wrote, it almost sounds like a straw man (er...straw person) statement, but it wasn't intended that way. I was attacking things that are really obvious and easy to attack, not misrepresenting something so I can tear it down.

    more detailed explanation (more than what you asked for):


    ......................

    I consider myself an ally of those who believe in gender equality. If someone calls themselves a feminist, great. If they don't want to call themselves feminists but they want equality of the sexes, fine. I go with the dictionary definition of feminism and do call myself a feminist; others see connotations and history as being just as important as technical definitions and may choose to reject the feminist label for their own reasons.
    If someone has some views that I see as sexist but they also genuinely want to learn, I'll recommend some resources so they can learn. If someone is a sexist and doesn't want to learn, I want nothing to do with them.

    Sorry for this drawn-out post. I would have made it shorter if I could.
    @underwaterthing -- I don't believe in equality of the sexes. I think they are complementary; and things go better when they are complimentary as well.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  6. #46
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephano View Post
    And there are really people offended by this?? What about characters like Sherlock? As long as there are counterparts in the media, at least in the sophisticated media, it's not biased. If someone really wants to believe these stereotypes (s)he will have a problem addressing reality.
    Anyways, not to hurt anybody's feelings, but there are femininists (not all, obviously) who are very totalitarian and not open for discussion. I think there should be a conceptual delimitation between the above and "moderate feminists".
    You miss the point...it's about portrayals which affect where the bar is set for a gender...and Sherlock is not setting the bar. Culture is not reflecting Sherlock & vice versa.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  7. #47
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    On the contrary, many would & do. Beyond rights, feminists may also be concerned with the general degradation of men & masculinity. A lot of feminists are concerned with how modern culture is "setting the bar low" for boys. For example, many male characters in the media portray men as thick-skulled horn dogs with no motivation beyond beer & sandwiches in life. This kind of image is one feminists would find degrading to men & would seek to combat. It's really a problem for everyone if boys & men are (wrongly) pegged as more animalistic than women & women as morally/spiritually superior to men.


    ----

    I got 71%, basic feminist*. Like many, I don't identify as a feminist because of the stigma & bizarre associations people make with it. I frankly don't like to identify with most labels for that reason, although I concede to call myself Christian (which also gives me a ton of stereotypes & inaccuracies to contend with). These labels are so broad that their umbrella encompasses belief systems which are contradictory & even opposed. I prefer to simply make known what I believe if necessary rather than have a one word label give the wrong impression of me because the person I am speaking to has a massively different idea of what that label means than the idea I have. I don't want to be characterized off a label that open to misinterpretation.

    *As a side, I found most of those questions needed an "other" option for me to answer them honestly & accurately. Very few answers were representative of how I actually see things or feel/think.
    @OrangeAppled --

    Dorothy L. Sayers beat you to it:

    “In reaction against the age-old slogan, "woman is the weaker vessel," or the still more offensive, "woman is a divine creature," we have, I think, allowed ourselves to drift into asserting that "a woman is as good as a man," without always pausing to think what exactly we mean by that. What, I feel, we ought to mean is something so obvious that it is apt to escape attention altogether, viz: (...) that a woman is just as much an ordinary human being as a man, with the same individual preferences, and with just as much right to the tastes and preferences of an individual. What is repugnant to every human being is to be reckoned always as a member of a class and not as an individual person.”

    ― Dorothy L. Sayers, Are Women Human? (originally written in 1938, btw)

    Nonetheless, I shall award you a polite golf clap:
    kaneclap.gif
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The test is pretty biased.
    lol obviously, which is why I am so concerned about how high peoples' scores are...

  9. #49
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    lol obviously, which is why I am so concerned about how high peoples' scores are...
    @Nicodemus, @SilentMusings --

    The test relied on misinterpretations / falsifications / stereotypes of traditionalist views, akin to Stephen Colbert's "If you're so innocent, how come you won't admit you're not?" line of questioning.
    Many times I wished there were a "none of the above" option among the answers.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    @Nicodemus, @SilentMusings --

    The test relied on misinterpretations / falsifications / stereotypes of traditionalist views, akin to Stephen Colbert's "If you're so innocent, how come you won't admit you're not?" line of questioning.
    Many times I wished there were a "none of the above" option among the answers.
    I am aware of that, and chose such a test on purpose to see if anyone would still come out as a feminist despite the questions being far from objective.

    That most of the forum has is deeply concerning...

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