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  1. #71
    nevermore lane777's Avatar
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    Wow, compared to everybody else' scores, I'm obviously a very unbalanced individual
    To die would be an awfully big adventure - Peter Pan

    INFJ ~ 4w5 sp/sx ~ RLOAI ~ Inclusion e/w=1/0 (Melancholy Compulsive) Control: e/w=0/6 (Supine) Affection: e/w=4/0 (Phlegmatic Melancholy)

  2. #72
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    It's not about "balance". According to the full theory, you'll be three temperaments in social skills, leadership skills and deep personal relationship skills. (Could be the same temperament, in which case, you're a "pure" type). This test (picking traits out of a list) is a very inexact method of estimating the temperament. So, Melancholy/Supine-Phlegmatic would seem to fit INFJ.
    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Well,

    CHOLERIC: 56
    PHLEGMATIC: 52
    MELANCHOLY: 55
    SANGUINE: 43
    SUPINE: 60

    This is pretty much exactly the opposite that I usually score, though I don't really know anything about the classic temperaments. Choleric/Sanguine tends to describe me well.

    I think, in this test, the Choleric and Sanguine traits tend to balance each other--a Choleric is disciplined and somewhat decisive but insensitive toward others, where Sanguine loves to motivate people but is somewhat undisciplined and spontaneous.
    So you're Supine-Choleric! That's like me. On one hand, I would say that would suggest INTP, but Supine is actually very funny that way. The "Expressed" behavior is low, like an introvert, yet it has been called an "Introverted Sanguine", because the need for people is as high as Sanguine. Phlegmatic is actually moderate in his need for people, but on the old four temperament matrix was next to Sanguine in being "people-focused" or "Informing". So you could be Supine-Choleric and still ENTP. I have some extraverted energies that I attribute in part to being Supine, and I at one point considered ENTP (as a tentative compromise between ENFP and INTP), but settled back on INTP because the archetypes fit better (tertiary/relief Si, inferior Fe, trickster Se, etc)

    I believe this missed temperament explains all the supposed EN-P "introverted extraverts", because Supine basically is described in five temperament theory as an introverted extravert. It also would explain a lot of T/F problems.

    Supine is also basically a bit more "feely", which I know gives me T/F ambiguities as well. So I've been called ENFP, and that's what you were wearing for a while, so this would explain it for both of us! It's the Choleric that pushes us to the T side (though perhaps barely), and at the same time might make us identify with ENTJ like you once did (That came up as my "preferred type" on Jung Explorer from Similarminds, and ENFP was the "attraction type", and INTP was "actualized type").
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  3. #73
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Here is a diagram showing the transition from four to five on the temperament matrix:
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  4. #74
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    I've noticed in your charts that you put phlegmatic in the middle of all of them. Is that why there is a need for a fifth temperament?

  5. #75
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Yes, that is apparently how it was discovered.
    In the first table, we see that Phlegmatic appears to be equal to Sanguine in "response sustain" or "people-focus", and Melancholy in "response delay" or introversion. The people who derived the theory used the FIRO-B scales, which graded expressiveness and people/task from 0-9. When the four ancient temperaments were mapped to this, it turned out Phlegmatic fit score ranges in the 4's and 5's, with the purest in dead center. And that makes sense, because when you really think of it, Phlegmatic is really moderate in expression (not as shy and reserved as the Melancholy), and in the "people/task scale, also moderate, ("can take them or leave them"). This is what is conveyed by the second table, where Phlegmatic does not quite reach the extreme ranges Sanguine and Melancholy do.

    So the upper right corner is people with a high need for association like a Sanguine, yet are as shy and reseved as a Melancholy. Because of this, they have a lot of problems getting their need met, and are often very frustrated, and want people to "read their minds" (IIRC, one INFP here even testified to this). And apparently other "four-temperament" theorists, including LaHaye, were mentioning people who did not fit into the other four, and were like Sanguines who for some reason were "passive".
    So the Christian counseling theorists named the Arno's deduced that this range was a previously unrecognized temperament. It was all along mistaken for a Melancholy or Phlegmatic, but really has quite distinct temperament needs.
    And it fit me like a glove, and explained a lot! Hence, why I became fascinated by temperament theory, and wanted to cross-map the two systems!
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  6. #76
    your resident asshole
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    Isn't phlegmatic just a useless temperament then? No wait... scratch that. What I mean is, isn't it a little too ambiguous to be a temperament? Or something like that... I'm not really sure...

  7. #77
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    I couldn't figure out how to take the test. It looks extremely complicated with all those numbers, and adding, and getting other people... I can't see how everyone else managed it.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I couldn't figure out how to take the test. It looks extremely complicated with all those numbers, and adding, and getting other people... I can't see how everyone else managed it.
    The instructions are on the page. =/

  9. #79
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    The instructions are on the page. =/
    I've been out of school too long, I guess.

    I'm so used to automated tests and pure writing or binary choice that the thought of having to plug in and add things up manually is actually stressful. Feels too much like math.

    Plus, grading things on a scale is hard for me in the first place, because I don't know if they're supposed to be relative to each other, to some internal standard, or what.

    I guess I'll wait until someone makes a less confusing and demanding test (or I can turn my brain back on, whichever comes first) to figure out where I fall.

  10. #80
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    Isn't phlegmatic just a useless temperament then? No wait... scratch that. What I mean is, isn't it a little too ambiguous to be a temperament? Or something like that... I'm not really sure...
    No, it's just moderate both in expressiveness and responsiveness. I believe those two factors are driven by energies that push you towards or away from others, so Phlegmatic is just in the middle, not really driven much of anywhere. (So they remain calm, peaceful, and can take people or leave them).

    That's why it was always characterized as "slow" like Phlegm. Confirming your question, is that at one point (centuries ago, I believe), Phlegmatic was in fact being considered the absence of temperament! That is technically what it is in this conception.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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