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  1. #51
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    *yanks your outstretched tongue*
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Keine Sorge, das habe ich auch bekommen. The best one was "The Resistance," I guess although it is quite an interesting question whether or not sabotaging your native country should be considered the best result. In my opinion, the expatriate is the best result.
    Are you kidding? You honestly think that resisting the Nazi's could have been considered morally reprehensible if you were German since you're 'sabotaging' your native country? Whoa. I never have and never will understand that degree of patriotism. The idea you should not 'sabotage' your native country when they're murdering millions of innocent people is just a really alien concept to me; if millions of innocent people are being murdered it renders the country you're from an entire irrelevance, I think. First and foremost you're a human and they are too. In fact if anything I think being patriotic and identifying with your country means moreso that you should feel accountable for what they're doing and stand against it if you think they're doing something wrong.

  3. #53
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    From our point of View today it is a great thing too see that individualism and trust in values that are necessary for human survival as a race has grown a custom to our minds.

    In former days, children were brainwashed during their early education, not by the Nazis but by the values of the Bourgeoisie itself.

    Free-Thinking would have needed a very strong mind from the start to sense their is something bigtime rotten in Denmark.

    If I think about the fact that there is no logical or emotional way to justify a war and try to say to myself that would have been the reason, you would have not gone to war. I must think about the fact that until the middle of WWII, there were no radios in regular households. So there few news, except the paper and mouth propaganda, and all you knew was that knowledge you gained from that little 5000 people town you lived in and from the propaganda machinery yelling your home is under attack.

    The question that then lasts is, why didnt they start thinking about what they were doing after they have conquered half europe. By the time there was no possible way to feel threatened by anyone. Trying to justify now this with traumata through war or small-minded people, is no longer possible.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #54
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    entropie - I appreciate that, and I'm not actually convinced we'd necessarily be that much better today; I think we maybe overestimate our capacity to think individually without listening to strong external influences. Hopefully we've learned from the Holocaust and there is a reason it's so widely remembered [although there are still genocides going on all over the world]. However there was a New York Times study where they looked at 21 cases of people threatening to jump off buildings in public, and in ten of them the crowd shouted 'jump' even when the emergency services were trying to get the person down. To me that suggests a really frightening element of the human condition we don't like to speculate on much. Like most people I'd sincerely hope I'd have resisted the Nazi's in Germany, but I can't say with certainty I would have and that wasn't what I was suggesting in my post.

    What I was objecting to was Little Linguist suggesting that it might have been wrong for a German to join the resistance since it undermines their country. That's someone with a present day mindset saying that, rather than someone in Germany at the time. For the reasons I gave, I just can't even begin to relate to her viewpoint.

  5. #55
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Since we have WWII thread I will dig this one.

  6. #56
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    So there few news, except the paper and mouth propaganda, and all you knew was that knowledge you gained from that little 5000 people town you lived in and from the propaganda machinery yelling your home is under attack.
    You're obviously wrong.

    For instance, since you are German, you should know that MOST people were aware of the existence of the death camps.
    They know lie by pretending they had never heard of it= Selective memory. It's more comfortable this way.

    But they knew.

    For instance, I have the letter (late 1943) of a German officer warning some socialist friends what was happening to the Jews they were gathering in France.
    Both my grandfathers admitted they knew, but to have answers you should have the courage to ask a few questions around you.

    Millions and millions of Germans citizens saw the Jews suddenly disappear. Dozens of thousands of them were required to keep the infrastructure of the death industry functional.

    My maternal grandma saw how the German population prefered to keep their mouths shut, even if they lived close to a camp. Everybody knew, none (or almost none) would stand up and help when she escaped.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  7. #57
    Senior Member Valhallahereicome's Avatar
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    I got the Expatriate. Saw this test floating around on OkCupid before, but was too nervous to take it because - let's face it - assuming that human beings all work the same way on average, most of us taking the test today would have been collaborators if we had really lived in 1930s Germany. I know that, but I hate knowing it for sure.

    As for myself, I don't quite believe that I would have left the country. I tend to be too apathetic about things not right under my nose; the Everyday German is probably a better fit for me.

    I think that the Resistance fighter is the best type, though. In my opinion, excessive patriotism isn't necessary to join such a movement. Love of humanity and justice should be enough.

    I notice that most people taking the test got the Expatriate. The validity of that seems dubious to me. You could say that we live in a different era, but in fact our present time shares a lot of similarities with 1920s-30s Germany. Economically depressed, political unrest manifesting in huge turnouts at the polls, hurt national pride, even - dare I say it - irrational and frightening pride in a new, very charismatic leader. I think people got the Expatriate because the way the test worked was fairly obvious, and no one wanted to end up as anything else. But if you really put us in that situation? Heil Hitler to the max.

    /negative depressing rant for the day.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valhallahereicome View Post
    II think that the Resistance fighter is the best type, though. In my opinion, excessive patriotism isn't necessary to join such a movement. Love of humanity and justice should be enough.
    Yes, totally agree. When good people do nothing (or run), evil flourishes.

    If they tagged anything with either "fight big government, lower taxes!" or "save the enviroment!" today, I think people would stand in line begging for a chance to pull the gas switch.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Anentropic IxTx's Avatar
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    I scored Expatriate - with a picture of Einstein!

  10. #60
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    The Expatriate

    Achtung! You are 38% brainwashworthy, 14% antitolerant, and 14% blindly patriotic

    Congratulations! You are not susceptible to brainwashing, your values and cares extend beyond the borders of your own country, and your Blind Patriotism does not reach unhealthy levels. If you had been German in the 30s, you would've left the country.

    I do think people's minds are still readily molded by propaganda. Most opinions about important issues are restatements of propaganda given out by the media and local authority figures and trusted friends repeating and reaffirming the ideas back and forth. I have to acknowledge this is the case for myself as well. In response I try to withhold an opinion on most matters, but honestly that is a cop out as well. This aspect of the human condition is particularly demoralizing to me, not just in my view of others, but the whole of it. It provides reason to doubt self as readily as anyone else.

    So would I have been a Nazi? If I encountered the scenario after the life experiences I have lived, then I can safely say, no. If I had lived the actual life of someone who did become a Nazi? While it is impossible to determine and I would prefer to still say it isn't possible, it seems more likely than not I would have been. It is a painful reality about how deeply reactionary we are as mere creatures or our circumstances.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

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