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  1. #1
    Senior Member Pinker85's Avatar
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    Default logic-test

    logic-test

    "The goal is to demonstrate that you can easily get confused without some help from a good calculus, unless you are very experienced."

    I'm curious how other people solved these. I did so through visualizations which seemed to naturally occur. I have no experience studying logic in an academic setting.
    "My comrades and my beloved, upon your way you shall meet men with hoofs; give them your wings. And men with horns; give them wreaths of laurel. And men with claws; give them petals for fingers. And men with forked tongues; give them honey words." --Kahlil Gibran, The Garden of The Prophet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    logic-test

    "The goal is to demonstrate that you can easily get confused without some help from a good calculus, unless you are very experienced."

    I'm curious how other people solved these. I did so through visualizations which seemed to naturally occur. I have no experience studying logic in an academic setting.
    This was actually a pretty cool test, and I have no formal training with logic either. Mass programming the multitudes with logic after all may ironically not be entirely logical!

    The way I solved these was by drawing literal lines in my mind between the different letters or names. Certain chains linked together, and others couldn't connect. So I guess I solved these the same way you did, just by imagining a sort of diagram.

    On the whole, that style seemed to work well for me, as you can see in my below results (15 of 19), but maybe a true logician would see more than just bridges between things; they could also possibly see a meta-system (a system about systems).

    Perhaps this would cause them to solve problems like these not only through deduction, but also by knowing "why" the different causal chains exist and/or connect together. I really don't know what I'm talking about though; I was only offering a theory on how it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by My Test Results
    The result of your logictest
    With a total of 26 questions 7 are answered with don't know !


    15 of 19 answered questions are correctly answered!

    Congratulations! Of the answered questions more than 3/4 are correctly answered. Not bad!

    In detail:

    4a) Doesn't follow: Minimal missing premise: It exists something that is dog and mean or dog and not animal


    4e) Doesn't follow: Minimal missing premise: It exists something that is dog and little and mean or dog and not animal


    5c) Doesn't follow: Minimal missing premise: It exists something that is A and not C or B and not C


    7e) Doesn't follow: Minimal missing premise: All A and B and D are C

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    I got 20/26, and I did it in less than 5 mins.
    Granted, I do have formal education in this...

    I went with what "sounded" true in my head...(which is a good way to fail logic tests)

    But, if I sat down, I'd be shocked if I couldn't work them all out...if I were to draw out venn diagrams....

    Though it's just basic logic...

    Like I remember trying to answer questions like "all A statements are tautological" "some B statements are tenable" and "all C statements are false" given that "some A statements are B statements, can you conclude that all B statements are A statements"? "What about the converse?" "What about the contrary?" "Are all C statements jointly satisfiable?"..."prove all assertions using truth tables..." I'd just be like "why am I even doing this?"

    Then there's multi-variable logic, which is also a trip...

    nevermind the fact that logic is limiting and therefore wholly irrelevant...(only partially relevant)

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    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    FYI, if you guys didn't recognize the form, these are logic puzzles as popularized by Lewis Carroll.

    Here's a little article on them and how he intended to teach children to solve them:
    http://hom.wikidot.com/the-logic-dia...-lewis-carroll

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    I feel as though any respectable math major would have to get 100% on this, provided s/he actually tried. Among them, the true score would be 1/(the time it took them to do it).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Senior Member Pinker85's Avatar
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    I received 26/26. :P I did a logic test on OKCupid that was loads harder and on that I didn't do nearly as well.
    "My comrades and my beloved, upon your way you shall meet men with hoofs; give them your wings. And men with horns; give them wreaths of laurel. And men with claws; give them petals for fingers. And men with forked tongues; give them honey words." --Kahlil Gibran, The Garden of The Prophet

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    Senior Member Fluxkom's Avatar
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    With a total of 26 questions 3 are answered with don't know !


    21 of 23 answered questions are correctly answered!

    Congratulations! You are a natural or used some helpers!
    When I get sad I stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story.

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    The result of your logictest
    21 of 26 answered questions are correctly answered!

    Congratulations! You are a natural or used some helpers!


    Hey, not bad.

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    Got 26/26 , I don't know exactly what they meant by helpers or calculus but I didn't use any of that. No formal training unless we count high school math and some introductory courses at university that I took out of interest... a long time ago too. -.-

    Some of the simpler ones I just did by looking at them and knowing naturally because they were simple enough to not need additional processing. For the rest I didn't usually visualize anything either, just kind of processed them somehow. I will try to explain: a bit like fast speed reading of the sentence *vs* reading the sentence word by word and getting the result at the end. This latter version is what I did for deeper processing. The actual processing I suppose is done on an automatic level in my brain without much conscious access so that's all I can say about it.

    A couple of times I did entertain myself by visualizing some arrows or sets of dogs/animals or A/B/C etc. This was not necessary though to solve the questions. As I said, this was more for entertainment now - my logic in general can be visualized well and sometimes in complex systems that *really* helps me simplify things but these questions were not complex enough for that.

    Two times during the test, I also got "bored" enough (=some of my mental capacity was left too unoccupied) at a point that for entertainment I quickly made some simplifying rule or made up a reasoning why things were the way they were... this was useful though to answer some of the questions faster. (Of course only simple rules/reasoning as these questions were not too complex)

    Someone mentioned they went by what sounded "true", that's exactly what I did in the "fast speed reading" mode for the simple ones. But I somehow have a very reliable warning signal in my brain that fires when the problem/question gets past the simple enough level where I can trust this completely automatic attitude and when that warning fires I go and switch into reading "word by word". I prefer being sure about my guess and will not give the answer without verifying first on a conscious level. Though I usually get it right... I still just don't trust it before verifying it. And sometimes I don't even have a guess anyway. Otoh, in complex mathematical problems, I can sometimes fully trust the feeling that I somehow know the answer and it does work out when I check it on the conscious level. I still like to verify all of those of course.



    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    This was actually a pretty cool test, and I have no formal training with logic either. Mass programming the multitudes with logic after all may ironically not be entirely logical!
    What multitudes and mass programming are you talking about? Just curious what you meant by that.


    On the whole, that style seemed to work well for me, as you can see in my below results (15 of 19), but maybe a true logician would see more than just bridges between things; they could also possibly see a meta-system (a system about systems).

    Perhaps this would cause them to solve problems like these not only through deduction, but also by knowing "why" the different causal chains exist and/or connect together. I really don't know what I'm talking about though; I was only offering a theory on how it works.
    I'm not a formal logician but I do like this sort of approach you describe.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    I received 26/26. :P I did a logic test on OKCupid that was loads harder and on that I didn't do nearly as well.
    Can you give a link to that one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonders View Post
    What multitudes and mass programming are you talking about? Just curious what you meant by that.
    That's what our society does to us. Educational systems are all about stupid command heirarchies and just doing what you're suppost to do. Real logic shouldn't be about following strict steps or rules set out before us by others. We are pretty much always going to find that the system is incomplete and that even a little bit of logic can go a long ways in improving the old ways.

    This is why children tend to be so open-minded; they ask lots of questions but adults always try to explain it away with dumb reponces about how that's just the way it is. What we need more of is radical openness!

    For reference, Jason Silva has a good perspective free of restrictive conditioning:

    Engineering Our Own Divinity

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