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  1. #31
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I agree with you, but you still value it even if it sucks sometimes. I didn't opt for that lifestyle at all, and I had plenty of feminine role models telling me so. My ESFJ exes mom, even in young adulthood, was livid that I wasn't some kind of Mexican maid.

    Some women are actually offended by who I am, my mother started screaming once, why aren't you married? why don't you have any children? Of course I think that was just reactivity to me saying she'd never gotten anywhere in life, I used to be pretty angry at her when I was younger.

    But my exes mom meant it. He was like "no just ignore her" because he was happy to clean up after himself and even do deep-cleaning, and he liked that I could cook and he couldn't, and that I actually was quite independent and able to support myself, he admired something about it, even when he wanted to keep me close and "take care of me" ...he would say that there was always something attractive about the fact that when I wanted to walk away, I always would and could, even if the circumstances weren't ideal, that I always seemed so capable of making my own freedom work.

    So I still don't know if its about being a woman or being a certain personality type. In PTypes ISFP is relationships secondary to freedom and/or creative pursuits, and I can never totally hate my grandfather's ESTJ wife, because she was the one whispering things in my ear like "you don't need a man, and for some reason I can see you having a husband clean the house for you, not the other way around" *she was eerily right about that and I was like 9 years old when she said that to me*...but she was uber-independent in this staunchly Te way, even when she still conformed to gender roles in her own way by keeping house and dressing the part of the perfect conservative Southern wife.
    That's a good point. My mom, who is an Fi type, I think, always said she didn't breastfeed because she didn't want to be tied down. That never made any sense to me. To me, if you have kids, you're tied down whether you give them formula or breastfeed them. It's just with breastfeeding, it's free and you don't have to wash bottles or pack them in the diaper bag before you leave the house.

    My family did kind of push the career thing, but since I felt like I didn't have a stable family growing up, I wanted to make one of my own. The women in my family were not the cooking, nurturing type, but our religious culture encouraged that kind of thing. That's what I thought I wanted to do. Then I figured out that I didn't much like it and wasn't particularly good at a lot of it. By then, I was kind of locked in and really still am in a lot of ways. If I'd grown up seeing it, I might have known better. Since I didn't, it almost had the lure of rebellion.

    Truth be told, though, there isn't anything else I think I'd be a lot happier doing. I don't have any driving ambition to have a fulfilling professional life. I just want to have enough money to be comfortable and I don't care too much how I get it as long as I'm not violating my morals or being made miserable in the process. And I don't know how folks juggle the childcare and full-time jobs and keep their marriages going. I don't think I have the energy for that.

    But, yeah, if there is something that I see that I honestly believe needs doing and it looks pretty certain that nobody else is going to do it, chances are pretty good that I'll get around to doing it. Like, if my mom couldn't drive and had a doctor's appointment and I do not have other plans, you can be damn sure I'm driving my mom to the doctor.

    However, I would not expect any of my kids to marry, to have kids, or to be SAHMs or SAHDs unless that's what they wanted to do. I want them to be responsible and to conduct their relationships with honor and I want them to be happy but I'm not real invested in how they do it. I do want grandkids, but if none of my kids have kids, there is always my brother. And if he doesn't have kids, well, surely there will be some frazzled parent or parents out there that will let us babysit for free and buy Carter's sleepers for their little ones. There isn't any need to damage my relationship with my kids over it or to try to push them into something that's a bad fit.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #32
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Hey, what, lol, what the, lol, what the hell happened?

    Was your quiz like broken or something? Why did it spew out some many results? And they arent even results its not bad to have like pessimism, unrelenting standards and entitlement (from certain perspectives that means you're well adjusted, yes, I subscribe to the insane society theory).

    What the hell is defective anyway? I want to know, why is everyone defective? *laughs so hard*

    I hope that page doesnt link to a dianetics website or anything like that
    Some of these can be channeled into productive or positive directions; it's just bad when you internalize things you have to be like, because you're constantly measuring yourself against things and not valuing yourself as you are. The defective thing is just that you have gotten the unconscious message that you are defective so you believe it when you don't measure up to unrelenting standards.

    I actually don't think I'm pessimistic; I'm very optimistic in general; it's only in relationships.

  3. #33
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    I dont understand how questions about following rules have anything to do with entitlement, its not about some shiva given right, its about the fact that rules generally have workarounds.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Hey, what, lol, what the, lol, what the hell happened?

    Was your quiz like broken or something? Why did it spew out some many results? And they arent even results its not bad to have like pessimism, unrelenting standards and entitlement (from certain perspectives that means you're well adjusted, yes, I subscribe to the insane society theory).

    What the hell is defective anyway? I want to know, why is everyone defective? *laughs so hard*

    I hope that page doesnt link to a dianetics website or anything like that
    Actually you don't see those things as being as bad because of your own personality. I see having unrelenting standards as insane and inflexible, which is why it's weak for me. Also, entitlement being "very strong" instead of strong or medium could point to a kind of narcissism.

    I think people get "defective" if they answer that they sometimes feel like they don't belong, or that other people are their better in some manner.

    I also think some people self-examine more closely than others, and it's easier to admit their flaws, or maybe answer "sometimes" to certain questions (quite honestly) even if the trait isn't a real problem for them in their life.

    I'm not surprised by your answers.

  5. #35
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I did this on a different forum last week....

    Lifetrap Strength
    Approval seeking very strong
    Self-sacrifice very strong
    Subjugation strong
    Social isolation strong
    Emotional deprivation strong
    Defectiveness strong
    Punitiveness strong
    Emotional inhibation medium
    Pessimism medium
    Failure medium
    Abuse medium
    Dependence medium
    Unrelenting standards medium
    Enmeshment weak
    Abandonment weak
    Vulnerablity no lifetrap
    Insufficient self-control no lifetrap
    Entitlement no lifetrap

    No real surprises here. I had a bully father and a fragile mother, neither of whom still really understands me, and that covers my chunk of high scores.

    More interesting to note the bottom -- that despite those particular tendencies in me, I'm not really one to become enmeshed, deal with abandonment, lack self-control, or feel entitled.

    EDIT: I actually took the long test last friday, and what came out far more apparently was my sense of social isolation and was my highest score, easily. I pretty much just feel like I don't fit in anywhere and if I disappeared, no one would notice.

    At this point in life, I'm thinking that maybe my expectations are too high vs me not having anywhere to go -- whatever level of connection I am craving might be unrealistic.




    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Oh boy, another fun opportunity to discover what's wrong with us, thereby making us feel special!
    Sorry, I'd have preferred that my parents didn't fuck me up with their baggage, as opposed to "feeling special," thanks. But maybe you're different...Oh wait, looks like you did the test anyway. Well, howdy and welcome to the Special Group.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #36
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Sorry, I'd have preferred that my parents didn't fuck me up with their baggage, as opposed to "feeling special," thanks. But maybe you're different...Oh wait, looks like you did the test anyway. Well, howdy and welcome to the Special Group.
    Yeah, I was particularly referring to myself in that snarky remark. No offense intended.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I also think some people self-examine more closely than others, and it's easier to admit their flaws, or maybe answer "sometimes" to certain questions (quite honestly) even if the trait isn't a real problem for them in their life.
    I was thinking this too.

  7. #37
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I also think some people self-examine more closely than others, and it's easier to admit their flaws, or maybe answer "sometimes" to certain questions (quite honestly) even if the trait isn't a real problem for them in their life.
    I think this is why I got so many "mediums", so few "weaks", and only one "no lifetrap".
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    More interesting to note the bottom -- that despite those particular tendencies in me, I'm not really one to become enmeshed, deal with abandonment, lack self-control, or feel entitled.
    That is an interesting way of thinking about it. (I was weak/no lifetrap on insufficient self-control, emotional deprivation, vulnerability, and dependence.)
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  8. #38
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    That is an interesting way of thinking about it. (I was weak/no lifetrap on insufficient self-control, emotional deprivation, vulnerability, and dependence.)
    Yeah, and I think it contributes to why I feel socially isolated. Basically to avoid the subjugation, self-sacrificing and whatever else that I feel compelled to do or that I've felt subjected to, and to avoid clinging to others or using them, I withdraw.... but then because I've withdrawn, I'm alone.

    EDIT: Back to the test for a second, I think it's important to just look at the scores in order, but not necessarily their strength per se. I noted that I tend to have a lot of "positive matches," my test scores are top-heavy. That probably means I was generally answering higher marks for all the questions than most others, so it's more the ranking of the areas that is helpful to me and not the slanted strengths of the scores.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #39
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Somewhat relevant I think. A lot of this is "wrong" with America as a culture.
    http://bananenplanet.wordpress.com/2...about-america/

  10. #40
    Senior Member Scheherezade's Avatar
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    Failure very strong
    Sosial isolation very strong
    Vulnerablity very strong
    Abuse very strong
    Self-sacrifice strong
    Emotional inhibation strong
    Defectiveness strong
    Entitlement strong
    Pessimism strong
    Punitiveness strong
    Emotional deprivation medium
    Dependence medium
    Abandonment medium
    Enmeshment medium
    Unrelenting standards medium
    Subjugation medium
    Insufficient self-control weak
    Approval seeking no lifetrap



    i m such a fan of finding illnesses for myself online
    this just gave me enough material for this May,

    PS some questions are extremely biased not to mention leading

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