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  1. #21
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I was pretty sure I have abandonment issues. I guess if I do, they aren't as bad as I thought. I dunno.

    Lifetrap --------- Strength
    Self-sacrifice --------- strong
    Subjugation --------- strong
    Vulnerablity --------- medium
    Approval seeking --------- medium
    Pessimism --------- medium
    Abuse --------- medium
    Entitlement --------- medium
    Failure --------- medium
    Sosial isolation --------- medium
    Dependence --------- weak
    Insufficient self-control --------- weak
    Emotional inhibation --------- weak
    Abandonment --------- weak
    Defectiveness --------- weak
    Unrelenting standards --------- no lifetrap
    Enmeshment --------- no lifetrap
    Emotional deprivation --------- no lifetrap
    Punitiveness --------- no lifetrap
    Wow, the ones which I think are amongst the most scary are in your top three, I dont like the whole subjugation idea, not for a moment.

  2. #22
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Wow, the ones which I think are amongst the most scary are in your top three, I dont like the whole subjugation idea, not for a moment.
    Well, that's why I thought I had abandonment issues: I sometimes put up with stuff that I probably shouldn't in order to preserve the relationship and keep harmony. It bothers me when people don't like me or are mad at me. It's not conscious thing and I don't care all that much if I'm not actually around the person but I'm driven to please folks when I'm around them. That's one reason why I keep a very limited social life: fewer people to worry about displeasing.

    But most of time, I do what I want and I can only keep up pleasing others for so long, unless they reward me with genuine approval. If I can't please someone, I will eventually write them off because the ROI is too low and I'm really kind of self-indulgent and lazy. I figure I can be by myself and be reading and be happy as a dog in stink, so why should I deal with it?

    I also intentionally chose a non-controlling mate because I dated a controlling guy before I met him and it did not go well. I can only take that stuff for so long, especially if I'm smarter and/or more competent than the other person. And anyone that tries to dominate me just for the heck of it is usually in for a big surprise. I have no tolerance for bullies and I lose all sense of self-preservation when someone tries to pull that stuff.

    So where I'm really vulnerable is with people who are nice to me. Thank God my in-laws haven't ever figured this stuff out. They would have no mercy.

    As far as the self-sacrificing stuff goes, well I am a housewife and mother of four and I'm my mother's oldest child. Some of it's just kind of legitimately my job. And there are perks to the job as well as obligations.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #23
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Lifetrap Strength
    Emotional inhibition - very strong
    Defectiveness - very strong
    Punitiveness - strong
    Pessimism - strong
    Failure - strong
    Dependence - strong
    Approval seeking - strong
    Subjugation - strong
    Enmeshment - strong
    Self-sacrifice - strong
    Social isolation - strong
    Vulnerability - medium
    Abandonment - medium
    Unrelenting standards - medium
    Insufficient self-control - medium
    Abuse - weak
    Emotional deprivation - weak
    Entitlement - weak

    Sounds pretty accurate. Some of the items in the questionnaire did hit pretty close to home...
    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

  4. #24
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    As far as the self-sacrificing stuff goes, well I am a housewife and mother of four and I'm my mother's oldest child. Some of it's just kind of legitimately my job. And there are perks to the job as well as obligations.
    I was waiting for someone to mention that and anticipating a gender bias in the results, ie carers and care giving roles being cast as submissive or self-sacrificing, that is a double edged sword and a total other debate but I'm overly familiar with how quizes of this kind can give eschew results and often portray the roles people are playing rather than the people that they are. It happens with MBTI too, although to a certain extent it happens with people aswell, framing and filtering is a fact of life and leads to superficial assessments and conclusions.

    Also what is the difference between feeling a thing and being self aware and self controlled about it and being a thing? If you know what I mean, clearly if you've any issues you are self-aware, you gave a great example of being self-controlled too and acting on the awareness when you mention choices about partner, so surely those things cease to be lifetraps then if you know what I mean?

    To my mind the results of these surveys or quizes are not the final word because a bunch of responses to closed questions can indicate something but whether a person chooses to accept or reject that these indications and what that means and results in is something else altogether too.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Interesting. Do you think it means anything (i.e. how accurate is this test, and how useful the information)?
    Hmm yes and no. The abuse thing is actually from adulthood, not from childhood (I was referencing an experience with an especially unstable long term partner) but the emotional deprivation thing assuredly comes from my grandparents being so reserved and undemonstrative, and from having a wonky relationship with my mother (which is better now in adulthood, and probably not her fault, per se) ...the lack of self-control probably also stems from being a strong Perceiver coming from a very strict, regimented household, where everyone else always controlled me.

    I read up on it, and apparently people with low self-control seek authoritative types, and that's probably why I've been attracted to a lot of SJs and a few NTJs and am put off by anyone who shows open displays lacking control in the same *areas* that I do.

    I also don't think my lack of self-control is as bad as it seems, I am not a heroin addict or anything, but on the other hand, I can't deny it.

    I think all people are neurotic, and people just replicate human patterns of things like dependency or punitive behavior. That's why I didn't even highlight anything that was medium or weak traits.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I was waiting for someone to mention that and anticipating a gender bias in the results, ie carers and care giving roles being cast as submissive or self-sacrificing, that is a double edged sword and a total other debate but I'm overly familiar with how quizes of this kind can give eschew results and often portray the roles people are playing rather than the people that they are. It happens with MBTI too, although to a certain extent it happens with people aswell, framing and filtering is a fact of life and leads to superficial assessments and conclusions.

    Also what is the difference between feeling a thing and being self aware and self controlled about it and being a thing? If you know what I mean, clearly if you've any issues you are self-aware, you gave a great example of being self-controlled too and acting on the awareness when you mention choices about partner, so surely those things cease to be lifetraps then if you know what I mean?

    To my mind the results of these surveys or quizes are not the final word because a bunch of responses to closed questions can indicate something but whether a person chooses to accept or reject that these indications and what that means and results in is something else altogether too.
    I'm female and my submissiveness, subjugation and self-sacrificing aren't strong.

    It may be personality related. As an Fe type, she may find self-sacrifice rewarding.

    As a Pe/Fi type, I probably do show a lot less self-control than an SJ...and may require more emotionally from some people than they want to or are capable of giving.

    And yes, you could re-take the test in a more positive or negative, tired or lively, mood and probably have slightly different responses.

  7. #27
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I'm female and my submissiveness, subjugation and self-sacrificing aren't strong.

    It may be personality related. As an Fe type, she may find self-sacrifice rewarding.

    As a Pe/Fi type, I probably do show a lot less self-control than an SJ...and may require more emotionally from some people than they want to or are capable of giving.

    And yes, you could re-take the test in a more positive or negative, tired or lively, mood and probably have slightly different responses.
    I think self-sacrifice sucks, honestly. But I believe sometimes it's necessary. When you have people that you are legitimately responsible for and responsible to, you suck it up and do at least the bare minimum. I don't get off on it or need people to think I'm amazing. I don't want to look like a Bad Mom. That's about the worst thing you can be and you can be labeled that for all kinds of stupid stuff.

    But when you have four kids and, for a good chunk of your life, your partner worked 70 hours a week and/or spent a significant part of their work week out of town it falls on your shoulders. If you don't do certain things, they aren't going to get done. If they don't get done, it negatively impacts the lives of the people that mean the most to you.

    So for a lot of years, while my kids were younger, yes, I was at the bottom of the totem pole. It's what it took for us to make it. It wasn't good for me and I didn't enjoy it, but it was an investment. Now that my husband works fewer hours and my kids are all older, I have a butt-load of free time. I mean, I'm still on-call if someone gets sick or something, but if I want to spent eight hours a day on my butt reading a book, there isn't anything to stop me from doing that now.

    But I know this is a lull. My mom is sixty-four and I'm the only daughter. It'll be my job to take care of her. Eventually, I'll probably have grandchildren and I want them to have the kind of involved grandparents I had, but my kids did not. I don't really see it as being that different from working an outside job except I really care about the people I do stuff for and hope to have them in my life indefinitely.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think self-sacrifice sucks, honestly. But I believe sometimes it's necessary. When you have people that you are legitimately responsible for and responsible to, you suck it up and do at least the bare minimum. I don't get off on it or need people to think I'm amazing. I don't want to look like a Bad Mom. That's about the worst thing you can be and you can be labeled that for all kinds of stupid stuff.

    But when you have four kids and, for a good chunk of your life, your partner worked 70 hours a week and/or spent a significant part of their work week out of town it falls on your shoulders. If you don't do certain things, they aren't going to get done. If they don't get done, it negatively impacts the lives of the people that mean the most to you.

    So for a lot of years, while my kids were younger, yes, I was at the bottom of the totem pole. It's what it took for us to make it. It wasn't good for me and I didn't enjoy it, but it was an investment. Now that my husband works fewer hours and my kids are all older, I have a butt-load of free time. I mean, I'm still on-call if someone gets sick or something, but if I want to spent eight hours a day on my butt reading a book, there isn't anything to stop me from doing that now.

    But I know this is a lull. My mom is sixty-four and I'm the only daughter. It'll be my job to take care of her. Eventually, I'll probably have grandchildren and I want them to have the kind of involved grandparents I had, but my kids did not. I don't really see it as being that different from working an outside job except I really care about the people I do stuff for and hope to have them in my life indefinitely.
    I agree with you, but you still value it even if it sucks sometimes. I didn't opt for that lifestyle at all, and I had plenty of feminine role models telling me so. My ESFJ exes mom, even in young adulthood, was livid that I wasn't some kind of Mexican maid.

    Some women are actually offended by who I am, my mother started screaming once, why aren't you married? why don't you have any children? Of course I think that was just reactivity to me saying she'd never gotten anywhere in life, I used to be pretty angry at her when I was younger.

    But my exes mom meant it. He was like "no just ignore her" because he was happy to clean up after himself and even do deep-cleaning, and he liked that I could cook and he couldn't, and that I actually was quite independent and able to support myself, he admired something about it, even when he wanted to keep me close and "take care of me" ...he would say that there was always something attractive about the fact that when I wanted to walk away, I always would and could, even if the circumstances weren't ideal, that I always seemed so capable of making my own freedom work.

    So I still don't know if its about being a woman or being a certain personality type. In PTypes ISFP is relationships secondary to freedom and/or creative pursuits, and I can never totally hate my grandfather's ESTJ wife, because she was the one whispering things in my ear like "you don't need a man, and for some reason I can see you having a husband clean the house for you, not the other way around" *she was eerily right about that and I was like 9 years old when she said that to me*...but she was uber-independent in this staunchly Te way, even when she still conformed to gender roles in her own way by keeping house and dressing the part of the perfect conservative Southern wife.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think self-sacrifice sucks, honestly. But I believe sometimes it's necessary. When you have people that you are legitimately responsible for and responsible to, you suck it up and do at least the bare minimum. I don't get off on it or need people to think I'm amazing. I don't want to look like a Bad Mom. That's about the worst thing you can be and you can be labeled that for all kinds of stupid stuff.

    But when you have four kids and, for a good chunk of your life, your partner worked 70 hours a week and/or spent a significant part of their work week out of town it falls on your shoulders. If you don't do certain things, they aren't going to get done. If they don't get done, it negatively impacts the lives of the people that mean the most to you.

    So for a lot of years, while my kids were younger, yes, I was at the bottom of the totem pole. It's what it took for us to make it. It wasn't good for me and I didn't enjoy it, but it was an investment. Now that my husband works fewer hours and my kids are all older, I have a butt-load of free time. I mean, I'm still on-call if someone gets sick or something, but if I want to spent eight hours a day on my butt reading a book, there isn't anything to stop me from doing that now.

    But I know this is a lull. My mom is sixty-four and I'm the only daughter. It'll be my job to take care of her. Eventually, I'll probably have grandchildren and I want them to have the kind of involved grandparents I had, but my kids did not. I don't really see it as being that different from working an outside job except I really care about the people I do stuff for and hope to have them in my life indefinitely.
    I agree with you, but you still value it even if it sucks sometimes. I didn't opt for that lifestyle at all, and I had plenty of feminine role models telling me so. My ESFJ exes mom, even in young adulthood, was livid that I wasn't some kind of Mexican maid.

    Some women are actually offended by who I am, my mother started screaming once, why aren't you married? why don't you have any children? Of course I think that was just reactivity to me saying she'd never gotten anywhere in life, I used to be pretty angry at her when I was younger.

    But my exes mom meant it. He was like "no just ignore her" because he was happy to clean up after himself and even do deep-cleaning, and he liked that I could cook and he couldn't, and that I actually was quite independent and able to support myself, he admired something about it, even when he wanted to keep me close and "take care of me" ...he would say that there was always something attractive about the fact that when I wanted to walk away, I always would and could, even if the circumstances weren't ideal, that I always seemed so capable of making my own freedom work.

    So I still don't know if its about being a woman or being a certain personality type. In PTypes ISFP is relationships secondary to freedom and/or creative pursuits, and I can never totally hate my grandfather's ESTJ wife, because she was the one whispering things in my ear like "you don't need a man, and for some reason I can see you having a husband clean the house for you, not the other way around" *she was eerily right about that and I was like 9 years old when she said that to me*...but she was uber-independent in this staunchly Te way, even when she still conformed to gender roles in her own way by keeping house and dressing the part of the perfect conservative Southern wife.

  10. #30
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Lifetrap Strength
    Sosial isolation strong
    Subjugation strong
    Vulnerablity strong
    Failure strong
    Pessimism medium
    Punitiveness medium
    Abandonment medium
    Self-sacrifice medium
    Dependence medium
    Approval seeking medium
    Unrelenting standards weak
    Defectiveness weak
    Insufficient self-control weak
    Enmeshment no lifetrap
    Abuse no lifetrap
    Emotional deprivation no lifetrap
    Entitlement no lifetrap
    Emotional inhibation no lifetrap

    Re: social isolation and failure: yes, I am a hermit (mostly by choice), and yes I don't feel like I've really been able to succeed in parts of life like my siblings and some of my friends have (although we have plenty). And re: vulnerability, yes I'm often (always?) worried about someone I love falling to the world's harms (I think that probably goes with being an enneagram 6).

    About subjugation, I do it to myself- I've been lucky to have a pretty loving family of origin, a healthy primary relationship, and I'm pretty selective about bringing friends into my "inner sanctum" but once they're there they're as good as family. So nobody is asking me to subjugate myself, but if I care about someone, I want to keep them happy. Not really because I'm afraid they'll leave me. Just because.. I don't know why, actually. Probably worth exploring.

    I liked this test, though- despite the spelling errors.

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